Difficult 1st gear and almost grinds 2nd, oil problem?

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

My mistake. It's Motul Gear 300 without the LS designation. The bottle says transmission and differential fluid.

Hmmmm So much for that theory.

[x808drifter]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

This is a scientific wild ass guess, but I am wondering if it has something to do with the "LS" suffix on your oil. Motul is not very forthcoming about the difference(s) between their Gear 300 and Gear 300 LS products. But, to my wee brain the LS signifies "Limited Slip" as in limited slip differential. In synchronized transmissions it's possible to have a lubricant that is too slippery. Synchronizers need a calibrated amount of friction to do their synchronizing thing and too slippery an oil will prevent them from working properly. My bet is your problem is there.

In my car I used Gear 300 (Non-LS) in the differential and Redline MT 90 in the transmission. Aside from my impression that the RL works better, I really can't figure out what Motul is doing here and am not interested in experimenting to find out.

LS = Clutch pack LSD Only.
Non LS = Everything else.

[vfrqqq]

So I just realized this morning that the bite point for my clutch appears to be almost all the way down at the bottom of the full travel of the pedal. If I had to guess, I'd say it starts biting when the pedal is perhaps only a centimeter or two away from being fully depressed. I couldn't tell you where the bite point used to be before the transmission fluid change to save my life, but this seems unusual, no?

This really makes me think something has changed with my clutch (which is factory original), but again why would it have all of a sudden manifested itself after a transmission oil change? That is to say that, before the fluid change, the transmission wasn't fantastic, but I only occasionally missed shifts or experienced hard shifts. However, after the fluid change, I would now be surprised if I didn't miss a shift.

As far as maintaining the clutch is concerned, it sounds like the first thing I would want to do is replace the throwout bearing, which I suppose means I should go ahead and replace the clutch a the same time, no? I haven't replaced the clutch fluid for a while though, so I'm also wondering if a thorough hydraulic fluid change might bring it back to "normal."

[vfrqqq]

Also, my clutch fluid reservoir looks like this. From what I've read, it would seem the black stuff is maybe due to disintegration of the o-rings on the master cylinder? i have no idea if that is an excessive amount and whether it means I should look into replacing my clutch master cylinder. Regardless, I'm going to replace the clutch hydraulic fluid this weekend to see if there is any change in behavior.

[vfrqqq]

Just replaced the clutch fluid with no discernable improvement in gear changes.

[thomasmryan]

if you look up you fluid specification from Subaru for the manual transmission it shows the page....,


https://parts.libertyautocitysubaru....A748V0100.html





Now, no one really needs a five gallon pail but you will notice it says '75W-80'


One can run 75W-90 weight or you can run GL-5 if you want. I wouldn't.





my only advise would be; don't take advise, follow the specifications of the book in the glove box.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

Just replaced the clutch fluid with no discernable improvement in gear changes.

If the friction point is that low it could very possibly be a source of your problem. Since swapping the fluid and bleeding the system didn't resolve your issue, you might try adjusting the pedal height.

The following link should help with that.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

Edit: I kinda wonder about the master cylinder though. I've never heard of one going bad and leaking down, but I suppose it could happen.

With the engine off, try depressing the clutch, putting the car in first and then starting it. Now, wait a few minutes. If the MC is leaking down, it will allow the clutch to slowly engage killing the engine. If it sits there happily burbling away, adjust the pedal.

You can, of course, replace the TOB and the clutch and some other stuff, but it would be nice to see exactly what this problem is first.

[vfrqqq]

Originally Posted by thomasmryan

if you look up you fluid specification from Subaru for the manual transmission it shows the page....,

https://parts.libertyautocitysubaru....A748V0100.html

Now, no one really needs a five gallon pail but you will notice it says '75W-80'

One can run 75W-90 weight or you can run GL-5 if you want. I wouldn't.

my only advise would be; don't take advise, follow the specifications of the book in the glove box.

Actually I thought I was following the OEM specs. Everything I've read (e.g., owners manual, service manual, shop repair manual) says either 75W85 or 75W90 and an API rating of GL-3 or greater for the transmission.

[vfrqqq]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

If the friction point is that low it could very possibly be a source of your problem. Since swapping the fluid and bleeding the system didn't resolve your issue, you might try adjusting the pedal height.

The following link should help with that.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

Edit: I kinda wonder about the master cylinder though. I've never heard of one going bad and leaking down, but I suppose it could happen.

With the engine off, try depressing the clutch, putting the car in first and then starting it. Now, wait a few minutes. If the MC is leaking down, it will allow the clutch to slowly engage killing the engine. If it sits there happily burbling away, adjust the pedal.

You can, of course, replace the TOB and the clutch and some other stuff, but it would be nice to see exactly what this problem is first.

If the MC was leaking down, wouldn't that have caused problems long before this time? I suppose it could have just happen to have started failing, but again, it's still strange to me that it would be coincident with transmission oil change. When I replaced the clutch hydraulic fluid (which I don't think I've done for about 30K miles), it was essentially at the same level its always been so I tend not to think it's a leaking MC, but I'll still check it out.

I definitely plan to try the pedal adjustment, so thanks for the link. That would seem to be one of the last things I could do before something more major like replacing the master cylinder or going all in and replacing the throwout bearing/clutch.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

If the MC was leaking down, wouldn't that have caused problems long before this time? I suppose it could have just happen to have started failing, but again, it's still strange to me that it would be coincident with transmission oil change. When I replaced the clutch hydraulic fluid (which I don't think I've done for about 30K miles), it was essentially at the same level its always been so I tend not to think it's a leaking MC, but I'll still check it out.

I definitely plan to try the pedal adjustment, so thanks for the link. That would seem to be one of the last things I could do before something more major like replacing the master cylinder or going all in and replacing the throwout bearing/clutch.

One has to think the pedal is low for a reason. The leakdown hypothesis is a long shot. It's just something to be ruled out. Because it's a hydraulic system, the clutch mechanism should be self adjusting. In your case it seems it could be misbehaving.

Perhaps someone has an explanation, but I can't think of how a TOB or pressure plate could cause the low pedal condition. I'd just hate to see you throw a lot of money at that and have it not fix the problem.

[vfrqqq]

I'm happy to report that the clutch pedal adjustment 100% fixed the problem.

The clutch pushrod had about a 1/4" to 3/8" of threads past the inside of the clevis and I adjusted it out until there were no threads past the inside of the clevis. I figured if that didn't fix it, there is a more substantial problem. The result was like night and day and the car feels "normal" again. I still have the usual issues going from 1st to 2nd, but it seems no worse than before this problem came up.

Now my question is why? When I loosened the locking nut on the clutch pushrod, it was not the even the slightest bit loose so a change in the position of the pushrod doesn't seem to have happened. Have I perhaps I've just run my clutch down or is it perhaps that the maybe the release fork or release for pivot have bent? At 70K miles, it would be a little surprising if my clutch was worn out, but from what I've read, it seems like a bent release fork or pivot is something that happens, but more for folks that are doing track days or HPDE.

[Capt Spaulding]

Those happen.

[itschris]

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

Also, my clutch fluid reservoir looks like this. From what I've read, it would seem the black stuff is maybe due to disintegration of the o-rings on the master cylinder? i have no idea if that is an excessive amount and whether it means I should look into replacing my clutch master cylinder. Regardless, I'm going to replace the clutch hydraulic fluid this weekend to see if there is any change in behavior.

I noticed this a couple years ago in my reservoir too. I tried wiping it out with a paper towel when bleeding my clutch, it was kinda greenish blackish. Didn't get it all, but hasn't seemed to cause any issues.

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

At 70K miles, it would be a little surprising if my clutch was worn out, but from what I've read, it seems like a bent release fork or pivot is something that happens, but more for folks that are doing track days or HPDE.

I also had my fork bend at ~50k miles. I went with the Verus forged one so I wouldn't have to deal with that again. As a bonus clutch feel was much improved.

[vfrqqq]

This is what eventually became of my clutch release fork.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...29#post3444429