Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[nonicname returns]

I agree with hamwich. This system sounds great but I'm not a fan of the black or white use. It's either on or off unlike real turbos or SCs.
Not sure what the solution would be but it's definitely something that needs exploring.

[Sojhinn]

This has been beaten like a dead horse already. The system is fairly linear even with the on/off nature of the system. Also the system is controlled by both the controller and the switch... There's more then one way to skin a cat with this setup.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

I would encourage you to analyze others' posts more carefully lest you misconstrue speculation as desire.

Please let us know how you would implement it?
What don't you like about the on and off nature?
Do you know why it is done this way?

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

I would encourage you to analyze others' posts more carefully lest you misconstrue speculation as desire.

Keep trying to insert false meaning to my words man, I can keep this up all day.

And while we're at it let's ban speculation and discussion of this product's potential. Telling people off when they ask questions to help expand their understanding of this product's past and future development is clearly far more productive. Thanks for your contributions man! You're really adding to the knowledgebase and understanding with your attitude and approach. What an ambassador for the Phantom owner's community! I'm sure you're an asset to Rob and the gang with your welcome reception to inquiries from newcomers.

Telling someone that a product isn't commercially available IS helpful. You have a real attitude problem. But thanks for your constructive input.

I'm enjoying my boosted BRZ. You?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Interesting to know an ecu tie in was attempted. Any info on what ultimately didnt work out? Curious as to whether it was a technical issue or just a flawed concept.

I really appreciate your continued insight and knowledge of this system. It's still quite something to watch the pioneering of a device that has such potential and will likely be commonplace in only a few years time.

The ecu tie in was just another controller that looked at throttle position and rpm to decide to turn the sc on or off. You could also select different boost levels. The was no variable on off though, it just looked for 90 percent or greater and engaged the ESC.

It was decided that picking different boost levels wasn't valuable because we are dealing with so little already...especially at redline...who wants to pick between 2psi or 1psi at redline? Also it obviously couldnt "crank up the boost" you always have the 5psi max to 2psi at redline.

The only thing that I may ask Rob to try and integrate is a 2 switch engagement... If it is even possible...set the first switch at about 60 percent throttle and make it only run the compressor at half speed... Once it gets to 90 percent throttle it goes to 100 percent boost.

This would help with the highway lower acceleration where you don't want to go WOT but you want to move faster than NA and realistically your car is already running in closed loop anyways.

[fenton]

Also remember that I'm not running DR right now so I am missing that slight boost that Dr pulses give you in the above situation

[fenton]

Everyone just chill. These are all valid questions and although they have been asked before many times not everyone knows that as the thread is extremely long.

The reason nothing has been implemented yet is there is no easy solution. Any time you want to add boost outside of closed loop there is going to be a lot of tuning that needs to happen to make it run like stock.

The awesome thing about the phantom is you have ALL of the driveability of stock but when you go WOT you just get a lot more power. This is akin to a small turbo spooling up...it feels absolutely great.

Would it be great to have a fully fledged system that had modular boost... absolutely.....but running the system as a full time FI replacement is not possible....you would find yourself running the batteries down I would think. The other great thing is it is so simple the cost can stay down. Adding other things increases cost, increases complexity and also adds more things that can fail. This system is amazing for the money.... Will technology keep growing and the product get better? Absolutely....this is the first stab at the system and its been pretty swell so far.

It was only a year and a bit ago I was getting .8 to .9 psi at redline....today with my experimental system I am getting 3 to 3.2.. .yes its using more power and won't run for as long on the batteries but its still damn exciting stuff.

Thanks for everyone's continued discussion and interest in the product....should be stopping by robs in the next couple days for a chat ... Will let you know if I hear anything about the orders.

[MmmHamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Telling someone that a product isn't commercially available IS helpful. You have a real attitude problem. But thanks for your constructive input.

I'm enjoying my boosted BRZ. You?

Let's start here...

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

You have a real attitude problem.

Interestingly enough, this was my first impression of you. Unfortunately as you've continued to interact with me, I suspect you might have another problem entirely. In light of this, I'm going to address this problem by giving you a bit of a breakdown of past events. This might go a long way into alleviating your confusion!


Let's check out my first post...

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Fenton,

Has there been any discussion (that you can disclose at any rate) about a more advanced method of controlling boost other than the pedal switch.

Granted the viability of this engagement setup has been a concern of mine for a while, but especially with your post about varing stages of boost or multiple compressors, I imagine some solution must be in the works.

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Fenton,

Notice here, I addressed Fenton, not you. Now now, I'll grant you this is a message board, anyone can chime in! However, you should probably only chime in when you have something worthwhile to add! More on this later, for now let's keep trucking...

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Has there been any discussion (that you can disclose at any rate) about a more advanced method of controlling boost other than the pedal switch.

You'll notice here I am asking if there was discussion about more advanced methods of controlling boost, Ie: more complex than the on off switch configuration. The fact I am addressing Fenton, I mention disclosure, and that we know Fenton has a rather close relationship with various developers, many people might correctly assume I am looking for the particular insider information he tends to have access to! Let's delve even further!

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Granted the viability of this engagement setup has been a concern of mine for a while, but especially with your post about varing stages of boost or multiple compressors, I imagine some solution must be in the works.

Hmm, perhaps this is the source of your confusion? Here I do indeed reference the concern I have had. Fenton is aware of this concern, as he and I had discussed it before. Referencing it helps him understand I am not asking again about the nature of the on-off configuration's operation, but instead my focus is on the possibility that anyone involved in the Phantom project has ever considered alternative compressor control or engagement. His picture of a dual compressor setup piques curiosity. Such a setup would likely require a more advanced control method than an on off switch. Now, I don't know Rob but based on his work so far I'd venture he didn't exactly fall off the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down. He's probably a pretty clever guy! Not only has he probably considered a more advanced control method for this setup, but he has probably also at least experimented with them at some point.

For the sake of comparison let's see what Fenton wrote for an example of a reply done right!

Originally Posted by fenton

No other way of controlling boost is in the works. Shiv was working on a electronic hook into the ECU for his Miata SC's but it didn't work as expected and i think he scrapped it.

THanks,

Great scott! Look at that! Fenton brought his in depth knowledge to bear. Not only that, turns out my suspicions that someone worked on a more advanced control method had some truth. That certainly is some useful information. We know someone made an attempt, but it didn't quite work. Fenton was also able to confirm that to his knowledge no other control methods were currently being worked on. Also great stuff. We may wonder why the first attempt at an ecu interface didn't work. I bet if I asked him he'd tell us! He sure did!


Now, let's take a look at your first response to me!

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

The photo with series compressors was a demonstration of possibility, not product.

The accelerator switch works. And it works quite well. I would encourage you to try it before suggesting that a more complicated solution is required.

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

The photo with series compressors was a demonstration of possibility, not product.

Gee, thanks! You must have been the only one to notice the description that fenton posted with the picture, you know, the same description I referenced in my first post!

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

The accelerator switch works. And it works quite well. I would encourage you to try it before suggesting that a more complicated solution is required.

Uh oh! Casey Jones hit the emergency brake! Someone just derailed!!

There are a few problems here, let's REALLY break it down!

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

The accelerator switch works.

At absolutely no point in that first message did I contest this.

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

And it works quite well.

Again, at no point did I contest that it even worked well!

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

I would encourage you to try it before suggesting that a more complicated solution is required.

Uh oh, here again, three strikes and you're out! At no point did I suggest a more complicated solution. What I did was ask Fenton has one ever been considered.

This explains my comment...

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

I would encourage you to analyze others' posts more carefully lest you misconstrue a question as a suggestion.

Perhaps you are now able to realize, what I wrote was a question to Fenton, and not a suggestion! Are we gaining any ground? I hope so!

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Yes, because wishing for a method of engaging boost is much more relevant then discussing the actual method of engaging boost.

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Yes, because wishing for a method of engaging boost...

Oh dear me! You've gone awry here as well! As you might be able to recall, I did none of this alleged wishing in that post that you so adamantly claim I did. This is why I wrote...

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

I would encourage you to analyze others' posts more carefully lest you misconstrue speculation as desire.

But that's not the only problem with what you wrote is it? You effectively state that "wishing" is not relevant, only discussing the product as is should be considered relevant. Well pardon me if you disagree, but that seems just plain silly. Are you suggesting that a thread with over 50k views and nearing 7.5k replies should not contain any suggestions for improvement or different designs? (Now let's remind ourselves before we get to carried away, my post contained NO SUGGESTIONS and was only a QUESTION ABOUT DEVELOPMENT HISTORY.) To me that is an important part of what a discussion thread is all about. It is this belief that inspired the following sarcastic remark...

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

And while we're at it let's ban speculation and discussion of this product's potential.

Indeed, if we did that, I dare say you'd probably wipe out half the posts in this thread! Heck we could have just said "No the TQ250 works just fine!" when the TQ300 was first announced, right? Hopefully now you're beginning to see that even if you HAD been right about me alleged "suggesting" and "wishing" for a different control system, you still would be out of place trying to dissuade that sort of discussion.

This finally brings us to...

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

Telling someone that a product isn't commercially available IS helpful.

Now bear with me because you're not making much sense here... I think you're trying to claim that your loose affirmations that the only method of ESC control on customer models to date is on-off, are helpful because it's the only method of ESC control on customer models to date... Now, not to detract any of this staggering helpfulness you're exhibiting, but I am pretty sure that surprises absolutely no one involved in the discussion right now...



So here we are at the end at last. It's been a long journey, but we made it together. We've learned a lot during this trial. Such as how, in my post there, I totally didn't suggest or wish for a different control method, and how what I actually did was ask fenton if a different control method was ever used, and how we learned that yes in fact a more advanced setup was experimented with, and we laughed and cried at what wonderful memories we shared.

We also learned a little bit about ourselves and how maybe, when someone asks a question about a product we own, we should take some time and actually read what they have to say instead of assuming QUESTIONS=BAD. We know that while we get passionate about the products we own and enjoy, we can keep an open mind and not overreact just because someone may want to know more or has a concern.

Afterall, we're just here to have fun and learn, right guys?

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

I'm enjoying my boosted BRZ.

There we go, something positive to say at last!

[MmmHamSandwich]

Originally Posted by fenton

The only thing that I may ask Rob to try and integrate is a 2 switch engagement... If it is even possible...set the first switch at about 60 percent throttle and make it only run the compressor at half speed... Once it gets to 90 percent throttle it goes to 100 percent boost.

That's an interesting idea. It would be cool if it could be implemented for you to test out and see if there is a good practical benefit.

Such an arrangement may be possible without utilizing a true brushless electronic speed control. While it would be neat to integrate one into this system, it would probably raise costs a non insignificant amount, add a considerable point a failure, and there probably wouldn't be a large benefit. Hobbyists do indeed use ESC's in model aircraft that can support these kinds of loads, but they're generally well cooled and not exposed to inclement weather among other technical difficulties. Would be an interesting idea for a test model just to see what it does.

[WNDSRFR]

Geez
I don't understand all this talk about a different much more complicated method than the on-off switch.
I have no problem with the system just as it is.
No changes need to be made. It works perfectly the way it is.
Not to say more boost wouldn't be nice. But I'm perfectly happy with what I have.
In fact I feel honored to be one of the early adopters.

[TM]

I love the on-off nature of the ESC. If I really want to accelerate and pass someone on the highway, I just let my car breathe and go WOT.

There's just not enough boost for it to be useful at half speed at the moment. I would rather save all of my battery for the full boost at WOT rather than to have it being drained to power it at half speed. If you want to accelerate, why only use it at half-boost?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WNDSRFR]

I agree completely.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Let's start here...



Interestingly enough, this was my first impression of you. Unfortunately as you've continued to interact with me.....

<lots and lots and lots of stuff I didn't read>

......, something positive to say at last!

lol, I wish I had as much free time as you guys

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

lol, I wish I had as much free time as you guys

I'm still waiting for the post when one calls the other a doo doo head.