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Old 06-14-2021, 12:01 PM   #29
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As for going back to the office, as I have been saying all along, it is very hard to form effective teams remotely. If people already know each other, then yeah, you can probably continue to work remotely if the job allows for it. However, you add someone new once in a while and suddenly you have a team that just isn't as effective anymore.

Regardless of what the tech companies try to tell us, we cannot really know someone through a screen. At least that's how I see it.

My personal situation is that I joined a company in summer 2019 that was all remote work anyway (startup, I was employee #12). I find myself personally detached form a lot of the people I work with, and I still have a stronger bond with my coworkers from my previous company (large company with all in person work) than anyone I currently work with. I would like to go back into the office at least a few times per week (we have a local office now)
None of our IT teams have had an issue working remotely. We've moved people between teams, added people, removed people, etc during COVID. We've been an international team for years so working remotely or just from one of several offices across the world is the same thing and several of the locations are small enough to have just 1 syseng on staff so it's not local teammates making it work. We've shortened our timeframes for providing support during COVID because people have been more productive with commutes and crap. Certainly it depends on the team and managing everyone remote IS harder, but it can be done with the right team regardless of how many new people you have. If they don't work out, just find a new person that does.

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There is a whole thread on the vaccine, so I recommend you take a look there. If you want to know what I think, I think half the country has received the vaccine, including myself and many other members here. I think the vaccine went through three phases of trials just like every other vaccine, drug, etc, and had even more scrutiny placed on it than usual. What I cannot think of is any valid reasoning behind not getting the vaccine other than not wanting the inconvenience of actually getting it.

Frankly, I don't really care what happens to people who don't get the vaccine because it is a non-problem. If you are making a conscious decision to purposefully give yourself a disadvantage in the job market, then that's your own fault. There are plenty of other people in line willing to step in.

It's like complaining that you can't drive a commercial truck without a CDL.
Some people can't get the vaccine due to other medical issues, just like with other vaccines. While that is the only legit reason I can think of, it is a reason and as humans we should still care what happens to those people in general.

Now for those that won't get it because tucker carlson said not to.. well...



As for the original question, we are returning to the office generally but some groups including IT are not except for endpoint services people. Also unless there are medical reasons not to get the vaccine it will LIKELY end up being a voluntary resignation if someone decides not to get the vaccine. But no timeline has been set for that hard requirement yet...
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:08 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
middle management has nothing to do if no one comes into the office
As someone who amounts to middle management, completely agree.

For our company, it is up to an agreement between the employees and the their direct manager. Thankfully I only have 3 direct reports right now, and all three are more productive working remotely than in an office, so I have no issue with them telecommuting full time. Also it means I have nothing to do all day and can play video games.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:28 PM   #31
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It is fun that so many people are employed in positions where working from home is even possible. Of the 26 people on staff at the plant only the IT guy and the Comptroller even have the slightest hope of working from home. Even then the IT guy is iffy since there are many hands on things he should be on site for.
We considered sending castings home for our 200 hourly guys but they were not enthusiastic about machining rotors in their living rooms!
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
None of our IT teams have had an issue working remotely. We've moved people between teams, added people, removed people, etc during COVID. We've been an international team for years so working remotely or just from one of several offices across the world is the same thing and several of the locations are small enough to have just 1 syseng on staff so it's not local teammates making it work. We've shortened our timeframes for providing support during COVID because people have been more productive with commutes and crap. Certainly it depends on the team and managing everyone remote IS harder, but it can be done with the right team regardless of how many new people you have. If they don't work out, just find a new person that does.
All good perspective, but I really hate how the IT industry has commandeered the term "Systems Engineer" and made a mockery of the job description.

This is the correct usage:
https://www.incose.org/systems-engineering
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:32 PM   #33
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For job positions where remote work is entirely possible going back to to a office 100% of the time is not nesssary. I imagine a lot of people would be more productive with a split of some sort.

The fiance right now goes in 1 day a week for things that can only be done at the office then spends the rest at home.

Its pretty easy to weed out people who are simply not pulling their weight via various performance metrics.


My work hasn't changed at all through covid. Some policy stuff and adapting to changing circumstances but that's about it.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:38 PM   #34
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Some people can't get the vaccine due to other medical issues, just like with other vaccines. While that is the only legit reason I can think of, it is a reason and as humans we should still care what happens to those people in general.

Now for those that won't get it because tucker carlson said not to.. well...
Fair enough. I wasn't thinking of actual medical conditions. I think those are few enough to not affect workplace heath on a macro level, so if there are any future vaccination requirements, I hope there would be an exception made in some way.
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Old 06-14-2021, 01:23 PM   #35
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It is fun that so many people are employed in positions where working from home is even possible. Of the 26 people on staff at the plant only the IT guy and the Comptroller even have the slightest hope of working from home. Even then the IT guy is iffy since there are many hands on things he should be on site for.
We considered sending castings home for our 200 hourly guys but they were not enthusiastic about machining rotors in their living rooms!
Totally okay with machining rotors in my living room and find myself with a lot of free time for some reason. Where do I apply? If nothing else, it'll make Teams meetings more interesting.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:49 PM   #36
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All good perspective, but I really hate how the IT industry has commandeered the term "Systems Engineer" and made a mockery of the job description.

This is the correct usage:
https://www.incose.org/systems-engineering
lol agreed on the title.. I used to resist it but resistance was futile.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:01 PM   #37
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Edit: as far as vaccines are concerned, you can encourage people to volunteer their vaccination records, but requiring a vaccine is a HIPAA minefield.
Actually, its not, employers can require your records as a condition of employment, just like drug tests and other health related items.

This is no different than schools, camps, sports teams, etc that ask for them for your children.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:07 PM   #38
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Some people can't get the vaccine due to other medical issues, just like with other vaccines. While that is the only legit reason I can think of, it is a reason and as humans we should still care what happens to those people in general.
True.

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Now for those that won't get it because tucker carlson said not to.. well...
{wry chuckle}


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As for the original question, we are returning to the office generally but some groups including IT are not except for endpoint services people. Also unless there are medical reasons not to get the vaccine it will LIKELY end up being a voluntary resignation if someone decides not to get the vaccine. But no timeline has been set for that hard requirement yet...
I suspect that after the FDA gives final (as opposed to emergency) approval of various vaccines this will become more prevalent. IIRC Pfizer has applied, but I'm not sure about the rest.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:10 PM   #39
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All good perspective, but I really hate how the IT industry has commandeered the term "Systems Engineer" and made a mockery of the job description.

This is the correct usage:
https://www.incose.org/systems-engineering
There are a bunch of different "Systems Engineer" roles now :\.

My first role was an internship being a software developer, but for a Sales Engineering org. They basically are the technical sales engineers who can go on-site, help set stuff up or demo it on the customer end, etc. But some sales engineers have the role of "systems engineer." I think that winds up being something like they have experience with a customers system that a normal sales engineer may not? Or something.

It's definitely one of the most confusing job titles I've ever seen.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:22 PM   #40
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My experience in the IT field with remote workers (whether at home or remote from their management) is that about 90% of them work fine and efficiently from a remote location. As a manager, you end up spending 50% of your time making sure the other 10% are pulling their load.

Of the 100 or so IT workers we have here, 50 are "analysts" and will continue to work from home for the most part. This is because we no longer have space to house them if they all come to the office at the same time thanks to changes in available office space during COVID.

The other 50% work in my area as Data Center, Networking, End User Support, basically Infrastructure. The DC team (which includes networking) can work from home and will continue to do so rotating persons on-site on a regular basis. The rest of the team has been pretty much in-house through all of COVID because they provide hands-on support more that 50% of the time.

I could have worked from home during COVID, and still could but the optics aren't good for someone at my level to not be in the office based on management above me. I don't mind though, it gives me a reason to drive me car.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:38 PM   #41
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OK full disclosure from me.

.....
Food for thought, Moderna has yet to have a vaccine pass trials yet either. Most of their vaccines in the past failed due to long term side effects. Can look this up if you don't believe me.

So I don't trust this. I might just be pre-disposed to having a reaction.
My google fu is failing me. I tried a number of search sequences to find references to the events you cited and came up empty. That may be due to the effect of the level of noise in the search engine resulting from the flood of covid references. Can you offer some citations to support your claims?
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:57 PM   #42
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None of our IT teams have had an issue working remotely. We've moved people between teams, added people, removed people, etc during COVID. We've been an international team for years so working remotely or just from one of several offices across the world is the same thing and several of the locations are small enough to have just 1 syseng on staff so it's not local teammates making it work. We've shortened our timeframes for providing support during COVID because people have been more productive with commutes and crap. Certainly it depends on the team and managing everyone remote IS harder, but it can be done with the right team regardless of how many new people you have. If they don't work out, just find a new person that does.

.
I'm an IT guy as well,, working from home full time was great for me and got lots done. I'm a mainframe systems admin so I don't work with a lot of other folks outside my group. The company is really pushing for everyone to be back in the office full time by August. The bad part is I was working from home 2 days a week pre-Covid,, not sure when that might happen again.
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