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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


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Old 06-14-2021, 11:59 AM   #15
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Let’s be honest many people will not be happy until this car has GT3 performance at 30k. Which will never happen IMO. My car is a DD and some fun spirited driving on good twisty mountain roads. I am happy with getting 80% of a Porsche at 20% of the cost.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:01 PM   #16
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The real difference is 50/50 vs. 55/45. And it *is* significant. It isn't a 5% difference in static load on the drive wheels, it is a 10% difference. It is significant enough that a not-even-50/50 Miata beats the FT86 to 60 and in the 1/4-mile by about half a second despite similar power to weight and same 1/4-mile trap speed.

It could also be the tires the cars come with...IDK why this is being ignored like it isn't a thing after 8+ years. Low grip tires and a ton of anti-squat. No one has really complained much about the weight distribution tbh...
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:29 PM   #17
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It could also be the tires the cars come with...IDK why this is being ignored like it isn't a thing after 8+ years. Low grip tires and a ton of anti-squat. No one has really complained much about the weight distribution tbh...
I have... I'd greatly prefer a shorter-wheelbase, more cab-rearward 2-seater version at closer to 50/50! Grinding away the fronts at the track, 55/45 distribution is obviously a big drawback, being more nose-heavy than a Mustang or Camaro

Regarding "low-grip" tires, they have the similar or better grip vs. stock Miata tires, both turned 0.90g on Car and Driver's skidpad, BRZ has shorter braking distance. Miata has better drive grip off the line because it has significantly more load on the drive wheels. Hence it has quicker 0-XX times and 1/4-mile time, but at same 1/4-mile speed.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ne-more-power/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B78...e7fBsneVQecZXQ
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:43 PM   #18
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a ton of anti-squat.
Does this car have significantly more anti-squat than most FR cars? That could explain some of it. Ive found my car to be very hard to hook at launch even on Michelin PSS tires on soft stock rear springs. If I try to get off the line fast at autoX I end up roasting the rear tires more times than Id like.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:43 PM   #19
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Lets be honest many people will not be happy until this car has GT3 performance at 30k. Which will never happen IMO. My car is a DD and some fun spirited driving on good twisty mountain roads. I am happy with getting 80% of a Porsche at 20% of the cost.
They can buy GT3.

I have bought gt86 don't event knowing what it is.

I have tuned it a bit. And it is enough. Nobody on the streets wants to cut corners on the same speed as I do.

If you want more straight line performance - buy a turbo kit, buy uber BMW M with tripple turbo.
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:55 PM   #20
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I don't think it's sad. I sold my uber-fast 200+mph LS3 FD supercar because my BRZ was more fun on the street, and pretty much as fun at the track!

What's sad to me is that manufacturers are aiming more and more for performance specs and uber-super-megaperforrming cars rather than making smaller, lighter-weight cars that are inherently more fun
This we agree on! If they built the 300+HP 'Stang killer so many scream for it would gain cost, and bulk, become less agile and all in all fit into a segment that is already spoken for by what used to be the "Pony" car class.
For every sale they made because it was an uber-super-mega performing car they would stand to lose more sales to the people that want that niche filled or just like a nice inexpensive coupe for day to day driving.
Actually a large basis of my dislike of the new styling is that it makes the car look like it is pretending to be something it is not.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:02 PM   #21
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Performance can mean different things. People are too focused on these cars straight line performance. Just get a Mustang if that's your priority. My '13 has a few goodies on it and I run in the 1:40's at Laguna. This weekend I was getting pointby's by 911's, BMW's and a C8 and I'm an 8\10 driver so there's more on the table, (gotta drive it home). I'm guessing the new 86 stock will be about the same performance as I have with the tune and header I did.

These cars need to be bought for their other attributes and not as a stoplight warrior. A well sorted Gen 1 is a great car and I'm guessing a well sorted Gen 2 will just be that much better.

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Old 06-14-2021, 11:43 PM   #22
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And there's the context of prices when new, fuel economy, and emissions standard.

You couldn't jack-rabbit an S2000 every stop light and still average 26-28 mpg average (stock, and yes YMMV). And it costed me maybe 20-25% less to buy new in 2021 dollars. Less outright track-transferable performance but it's a great compromise in performance in numerous categories.

That said, I see S2000's still competitive in SCCA and wonder if I made a bad choice hahaha... until I take a 4 hour road trip.


edit: S2000 price after inflation already discussed. But yeah S2000 is probably the closest. There's not much else at the same price point now it seems. Although, in agreement with Tommy's point, maybe the focus is too much on the individual specs. The big picture maybe equates to higher powered vehicles (in line with SCCA classifications).
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Old 06-15-2021, 05:50 AM   #23
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Lets be honest many people will not be happy until this car has GT3 performance at 30k.
Tee hee, at Palmer last year, BRZ 1:48.160 (1st in Touring 60), GT3 1:49.360 (3rd in Touring 80):
https://www.comscc.org/events/result...?id=2020-08-09
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Old 06-15-2021, 06:43 AM   #24
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This we agree on! If they built the 300+HP 'Stang killer so many scream for it would gain cost, and bulk, become less agile and all in all fit into a segment that is already spoken for by what used to be the "Pony" car class.
Ha-ha, *mostly* agree! I still think they could make a higher-perf version by shortening the wheelbase and ditching the rear seats, fixing the f/r weight distribution, *losing* bulk, making it *more* agile. And I wouldn't be opposed to a 300hp N.A. v6 or turbo-4 version of that, which *could* still come in at current FT86 weight. Still waiting/hoping for a modern 240Z! But I know it ain't happenin'...
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:06 AM   #25
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Ha-ha, *mostly* agree! I still think they could make a higher-perf version by shortening the wheelbase and ditching the rear seats, fixing the f/r weight distribution, *losing* bulk, making it *more* agile. And I wouldn't be opposed to a 300hp N.A. v6 or turbo-4 version of that, which *could* still come in at current FT86 weight. Still waiting/hoping for a modern 240Z! But I know it ain't happenin'...
It is a difference of could vs would. By the time they pulled that all off you have a Supra priced car.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:28 AM   #26
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Ha-ha, *mostly* agree! I still think they could make a higher-perf version by shortening the wheelbase and ditching the rear seats, fixing the f/r weight distribution, *losing* bulk, making it *more* agile. And I wouldn't be opposed to a 300hp N.A. v6 or turbo-4 version of that, which *could* still come in at current FT86 weight. Still waiting/hoping for a modern 240Z! But I know it ain't happenin'...
Except, it would only be the same car in name only. Until you do it, you don't know any of that would make it "better" just "different".
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:35 AM   #27
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It is a difference of could vs would. By the time they pulled that all off you have a Supra priced car.
Not at all... Not talking about a 2 seat version of a luxury platform complete with built-in BMW +$$,$$$ upcharge and luxobarge mass. A 2-seat version of the FT86 (keep it simple and leave 228hp n.a. flat-4 alone) could be built for less $$$$ than the 2+2 (fewer parts, lower materials costs), but of course they could and would sell for more $$$$ because "dedicated 2-seater" and they'd likely have to if demand for less utilitarian version were significantly lower. But they would expand total sales a bit overall and help amortize the shared bits. Anyway, figure they could sell it for +$5k over FT86 pricing, I'd be fine with that.
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Old 06-15-2021, 07:43 AM   #28
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Not at all... Not talking about a 2 seat version of a luxury platform complete with built-in BMW +$$,$$$ upcharge and luxobarge mass. A 2-seat version of the FT86 (keep it simple and leave 228hp n.a. flat-4 alone) could be built for less $$$$ than the 2+2 (fewer parts, lower materials costs), but of course they could and would sell for more $$$$ because "dedicated 2-seater" and they'd likely have to if demand for less utilitarian version were significantly lower. But they would expand total sales a bit overall and help amortize the shared bits. Anyway, figure they could sell it for +$5k over FT86 pricing, I'd be fine with that.
A two seat version is different than a shortened, rebalanced, higher HP, lighter version. Agreed they could take the current car and strip it down a bit but what you asked for before (as Hawk pointed out) is a totally different car. What you really want is a new MR2 which although not probable is at least possible in the future.
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