New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[WolfpackS2k]

I fail to see how, 20 years later, a new Hummer being 1000 lb heavier is progress. There's these things called advances in material technology. And for vehicles that are being designed and forced on us "in the name" sustainability, vehicle weight should be a priority.

And I realize that some EVs weigh less than comparable ICEs, but the list is very short. It's basically the Model 3...and nothing else.

I'm in favor of higher road use/gas taxes across the board, TBH. The roads are underfunded as it is. Of course we know that govt's love raiding transportation funds for other purposes...so hard to win these days

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I fail to see how, 20 years later, a new Hummer being 1000 lb heavier is progress. There's these things called advances in material technology. And for vehicles that are being designed and forced on us "in the name" sustainability, vehicle weight should be a priority.

And I realize that some EVs weigh less than comparable ICEs, but the list is very short. It's basically the Model 3...and nothing else.

I'm in favor of higher road use/gas taxes across the board, TBH. The roads are underfunded as it is. Of course we know that govt's love raiding transportation funds for other purposes...so hard to win these days

I will speak for everyone else that already knows this: no one is forcing a Hummer EV on you, but the Hummer EV is miles ahead of the H2 even if it wasn't an EV, in size and features, so the weight of the Hummer isn't the best apples to apples comparison that someone made for EVs vs ICEs.

I am not really for "flat" taxes (fixed dollar amounts) because I believe in a more progressive tax system, and as a percentage of someone's income/wealth, "flat" or use/consumption taxes are actually regressive. Yes, the rich and wealthy pay a lot more taxes, but not as a percentage of their income. Add to that the idea that the average person contributes far higher of a percentage of their income to live and less to savings or for excess, and it is clear that taxes on use/consumption isn't as fair as it seems.

[Lantanafrs2]

It looks to me that OEM's are committed to evs regardless of political wranglings, gas prices etc. Imo they can't wait to shut down those engine plants

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

It looks to me that OEM's are committed to evs regardless of political wranglings, gas prices etc. Imo they can't wait to shut down those engine plants

OEMs have the same logic with CUVs. Not everyone wants/needs them, but that's what they're shoving down our throats.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by weederr33

OEMs have the same logic with CUVs. Not everyone wants/needs them, but that's what sells.

ftfy

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

ftfy

No. It only sells because it's what the manufactures what to push. Therefore it will sell. You start flooding the market with one thing and limit another, of course it will sell more

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I fail to see how, 20 years later, a new Hummer being 1000 lb heavier is progress.

It's progress in the same way the original Tesla Roadster was progress. It's an expensive car that will help forge the way for everyday cars while GM gets it's battery plant up and running.

GM also offers a couple of other very good EVs if you prefer something smaller, with more coming.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I will speak for everyone else that already knows this: no one is forcing a Hummer EV on you, but the Hummer EV is miles ahead of the H2 even if it wasn't an EV, in size and features, so the weight of the Hummer isn't the best apples to apples comparison that someone made for EVs vs ICEs.

Yep. I'm actually tempted by the Hummer EV, but would not, in a milllion years, have bought any version of the original Hummer/H2/H3. In fact, I would say the new Hummer EV is a hell of deal when you look at it feature for feature over the Hummer ICE.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by weederr33

No. It only sells because it's what the manufactures what to push. Therefore it will sell. You start flooding the market with one thing and limit another, of course it will sell more

Actually there are plenty of choices that will accomplish the same mission
as CUVs, but that seems to be the new family car of choice.

CUVs are the new large coupe/station wagon/minivan and they will run their course. Even in the EV space we are seeing alternatives starting to pop up.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

As I recall, earnings on stock options are considered regular income rather than capital gains. I could be wrong on that portion though.

Only if you cash it out. And only if the sell price is higher than the price you paid for it.

If you sell anywhere from 1 day to 365 days after receiving it, it is taxed under your personal income tax brackets (ordinary income), progressive brackets up to 37%.

After 1 year, it is taxed as long term gains, 0/15/20%, usually 15% or lower for most... except Elon. And other people with more than $500k worth of capital gains.

But if you have a good accountant, you'd have one massive year of loss and spread it out over the next few, and cash out other long term gains over the same period for a net 0% tax liability. This is how people with a lot of money avoid taxes, by 1) selling it after at least 1 year, and 2) pair it up with losses to make the taxable amount from proceeds to be as low as possible.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...-tax-rates.asp

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I fail to see how, 20 years later, a new Hummer being 1000 lb heavier is progress. There's these things called advances in material technology. And for vehicles that are being designed and forced on us "in the name" sustainability, vehicle weight should be a priority.

And I realize that some EVs weigh less than comparable ICEs, but the list is very short. It's basically the Model 3...and nothing else.

I'm in favor of higher road use/gas taxes across the board, TBH. The roads are underfunded as it is. Of course we know that govt's love raiding transportation funds for other purposes...so hard to win these days

Current status for EVs (I hope we see further improvements soon):
Avg US EV: 125 gCO2e/MJ
Gas US avg: 88 gCO2e/MJ
California EV: 60 gCO2e/MJ
E85: 54 gCO2e/MJ

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I will speak for everyone else that already knows this: no one is forcing a Hummer EV on you, but the Hummer EV is miles ahead of the H2 even if it wasn't an EV, in size and features, so the weight of the Hummer isn't the best apples to apples comparison that someone made for EVs vs ICEs.

I am not really for "flat" taxes (fixed dollar amounts) because I believe in a more progressive tax system, and as a percentage of someone's income/wealth, "flat" or use/consumption taxes are actually regressive. Yes, the rich and wealthy pay a lot more taxes, but not as a percentage of their income. Add to that the idea that the average person contributes far higher of a percentage of their income to live and less to savings or for excess, and it is clear that taxes on use/consumption isn't as fair as it seems.

Hah, I was just using as an example, mostly because that information just dropped the other day. I have no purpose for owning a truck currently, but in near future may need one for towing a race car. Also currently blessed with being in a WFH position, so I have no use for an EV to DD (the only thing they're currently good for). Perhaps that will change one day.

I agree with you in principle about taxes on certain things and how they can be regressive. However driving an automobile isn't regressive in the sense that higher energy costs are essentially a regressive tax. Automobile ownership and use isn't mandatory for most of the country. Electricity is.

Overall though, totally agree in restructuring being needed to get the rich to shoulder their fair load.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I agree with you in principle about taxes on certain things and how they can be regressive.

It's an interesting video, but there are a couple of things they conveniently left out.

First, they point out how payroll taxes reduce salaries, but don't mention how corporate income taxes are really embedded taxes in goods and services we purchase, thus basically serving as an extension of the sales tax.

Second, they leave out the reason why payroll taxes are capped. The reason is because the benefit is capped. This is to avoid having to pay "rich people" a higher social security payout once they reach retirement age. That's OK since they should be able to save and take care of themselves, but they shouldn't have to pay a higher tax then the benefit they receive since this is not a government funding program but a defined benefit.

Medicare is like other healthcare insurance, you pay based on the cost of the service you receive, not based on your ability to pay.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

Current status for EVs (I hope we see further improvements soon):
Avg US EV: 125 gCO2e/MJ
Gas US avg: 88 gCO2e/MJ
California EV: 60 gCO2e/MJ
E85: 54 gCO2e/MJ

Where did you source this? Is this average use based on where electricity is generated from; ie, coal, oil, natural gas, etc? Is this End-Of-Product and/or End-Of-Life carbon footprint considering the differences in producing an ICE vs EV, or in the production and refining of ethanol vs petrol?

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/22/110752...rbon-footprint

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

This chart makes me wonder, does "Efficient Corn Ethanol" get you drunk faster too?