COVID Developments and News

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by soundman98

that's great news! the problem for me was never to debate whether it worked or not, but people rushing to buy OTS versions before any medical evidence was studied/generated to prove it's effectiveness or side effects


i really don't like this whole 'lets jump to the forefront of medicine before the doctors do' thing many people seem to be taking on...

I agree completely. The factually incorrect assertions that ivermectin has been irrefutably proven to be ineffective against Covid, and that cases of ivermectin poisoning were caused by ivermectin use under the care and advise of physicians, needed addressing. I was CRYSTAL clear that using veterinary preparations was stupid and dangerous, and not part of the discussion regarding ivermectin's effectiveness, but that of course doesn't stop people from posting cute Raid gifs and using phrases like horse paste...which of course lends nothing to meaningful or productive dialog. Nor does calling people roaches.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

But god forbid if it’s a vaccine.

As I noted before, it’s 99.9999% political. Vaccines are not to be trusted because the government promotes them. - full stop - We rush to the feed store because our chosen source(s) of disinformation promote an untested “cure.” - full stop -

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

As I noted before, it’s 99.9999% political. Vaccines are not to be trusted because the government promotes them. - full stop - We rush to the feed store because our chosen source(s) of disinformation promote an untested “cure.” - full stop -

"Promote" does not equal "mandate," which is the ONLY thing being objected to. I have yet to read a single opinion stating that anyone should be prevented from choosing to get the vaccine, nor a single opinion espousing using veterinary preparations. Who is this mythical "we" of which you speak, other than the extremely small handful of sadly ignorant people with obviously limited intelligence who poisoned themselves doing something no doctor would ever recommend?

[Atmo]

Rolling Stone Ivermectin OD story debunked. Originated from quack physician who should be canceled for disinformation, right?

https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/h...g-stone-story/

[Atmo]

Oregon governor being sued by state police and firefighters for her new vaxx mandate eliminating testing as an option. So far, her biggest contributors, teachers, haven't taken a stand.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebecc...ndate-n2595328

[Lantanafrs2]

Let's not post too much info that king fauci wouldn't approve of. Remember when masks didn't work and boosters would be unnecessary?

[OwlDance]

I don't really have anything to contribute that probably hasn't been covered in the last several hundred posts.

Having worked in academia alongside working in emergency healthcare (during COVID no less), I find it deeply frustrating that people suddenly decide to find the 'nuances' to debate freedom/liberties of simple health procedures that would normally have little to no personal cost, sourced from some of the most unbiased places of information (science and research), but for other larger and even more complex topics will buy them at face value from propogandic sources.

These mandates, vaccines, quarantine, etc, have never been something that should have ever been in contention except those within the scientific community, which, while not perfect (I could rant for hours about the DSM-5 used for diagnosing mental health), is still far better than the massive disinformation people have spun up with as "liberties" to choose.

A vaccine doesn't get pushed out the door without hundreds of thousands if not millions of manhours being put into the research, while being verified and crosschecked by dozens if not hundreds of organizations.

As opposed to a single as-of-yet unverified clickbaited information that news media likely took out of context that will spur idiots to spread unverified claims like wildfire resulting in the disasters we have, resulting in disinformation and confusion.

The short of it, I'm tired of this bullshit, but I needed to say my peace on it.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Rolling Stone Ivermectin OD story debunked. Originated from quack physician who should be canceled for disinformation, right?

https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/h...g-stone-story/

Huh, who would have thought that a tabloid would be an unreliable source of medical information?

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Let's not post too much info that king fauci wouldn't approve of. Remember when masks didn't work and boosters would be unnecessary?

The internet doesn't forget, is it worth me digging into your past to find a time you were wrong?

We should really rename every person in public government that delivers official responses as 'official [current title here] scapegoat'

Fauci has very little affect on what's happening, not all that different from the role of president. As hard as it might be to believe, both don't and can't take action without hundreds to thousands of people working behind the scenes. difference is they're in positions that require face time in front of the camera delivering the final result after all the data is collected, sorted, and managed. Which leads to pitchforks with their names on them.

but the reality is even if we agree collectively to murder fauci as a group and drag his corpse through the streets like the people did with saddam hussein, all those many people working behind the scenes are going to still be working, still creating the same end result, and a new scapegoat will be appointed to deliver the same result, delivering a repeated end result.

We're all learning as we go here, with new data constantly changing and altering what we previously knew.

NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING. AND ANYONE THAT CLAIMS TO, KNOWS NOTHING.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by soundman98

Huh, who would have thought that a tabloid would be an unreliable source of medical information?

The tabloid was the publisher, a physician the source. Clearly, and not for the first time, the publisher failed basic journalistic protocols, possibly on purpose to promote their agenda.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by soundman98

The internet doesn't forget, is it worth me digging into your past to find a time you were wrong?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by soundman98

The internet doesn't forget, is it worth me digging into your past to find a time you were wrong?

I was, again, tempted to respond but I, again, deleted. Like @OwlDance said, I'm also tired of this bullshit.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

"Promote" does not equal "mandate," which is the ONLY thing being objected to. I have yet to read a single opinion stating that anyone should be prevented from choosing to get the vaccine, nor a single opinion espousing using veterinary preparations. Who is this mythical "we" of which you speak, other than the extremely small handful of sadly ignorant people with obviously limited intelligence who poisoned themselves doing something no doctor would ever recommend?

The "we" of which I speak are the countless, desperate and ignorant souls who went the their local veterinary medical supply house when they were told that IVM was a potential cure and later wound up at the ER or a doctor or calling poison control. Now how they wound up at the feed store, I have no idea. I don't shop for "news" at the same outlets they do. Perhaps is was there. Or perhaps they put 2 and 1 together and came up with 4.

I've been monitoring developments in the treatments for Covid since before the pandemic was declared a pandemic. I remember distinctly a paper that came from researchers in France that reported what I thought were miraculous results from the use of a chloroquine/azithromycin cocktail. I use the term miraculous advisedly, because that is what they were. Virtually complete recoveries in a few days for all those in the 'experimental" group. I forwarded the link to some colleagues and friends with the note that "if this pans out, this could be over very soon."

It did not pan out and here we are 18 months later in as bad a position as we were in March of 2020. My position on breakthrough treatments is, the smart thing to do is to wait for the process to do what it is intended to do. It did so with chloroquine and it's doing so with Ivermectin. Perhaps, it will pan out, perhaps not. I did go into the weeds a bit on the meta-analyses of IVM and, while some to many of them appeared promising, all researchers studying it correctly advised caution in using the their results.

That, however, does not rescue the fools who went to the feed store. I haven't heard of any fatalities from that yet. So I guess there is a silver lining. Or, perhaps not - depending on where one sits

As to the "opinion"s you speak of, you'll need to be a bit more clear as to whose opinions you're talking about.

I have heard and seen many, in certain corners of the media, on-line, and on this board, spreading false and misleading information about vaccines and masks. While not explicitly saying that others should not be allowed to get vaccinated, the obvious (to me) goal is to dissuade them from doing so.

As to the mandate v. liberty thing, we have beaten that poor horse senseless so many times that I'm sure the humane society has us on a wanted poster. As a general rule, I favor as few rules as possible. In fact, I'd prefer there to be only one - the same one a grad faculty advisor/friend gave me when I asked advice before my first interview - "Don't fuck it up."

In a real sense, it's a, rather crude, variation on the "golden rule." If everyone would follow it we would not need 99% of the laws on the books. Unfortunately, humanity has, on countless occasions, exhibited an uncanny ability to fuck it up. If you'll think back to when it appeared the vaccination campaign was succeeding I noted - repeatedly - that this wasn't over yet. And further, that we still had a remarkable opportunity to fuck it up. Well, it wasn't over and we did - fuck it up. How? Vaccine resistance played, in my well considered opinion, a major role.

So back to mandates. My rule (and it is evolving) is everyone should be allowed to make their own choices UNTIL - BY MAKING THEIR CHOICE - FOR THEM - THEY DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY MAKE SOMEONE ELSE'S CHOICE - FOR THEM.

It seems me that when it comes to vaccines and masks that rule requires mandates for both - depending on circumstance. By refusing vaccination, you dramatically increase the chance that you will catch the virus and, in doing so may pass it on to someone who cannot be vaccinated. You have made their choice, for them. We live in a complex, interdependent society. That can have benefits. It also has a big downside. If don't want to vaccinate, that is fine. However, you should agree (under pain of law) to stay in isolation from the rest of society until the pandemic is well and truly over - not by your definition of over, but of a competent authority.

If you wish to access the benefits of society, you MUST do your part to protect its members. - full stop -

Now let's be honest. I'm as or more tired of this nonsensical back and forth as anyone. The virus has hit home with me. I've thought through the arguments countless times. I know where I stand. I think I know where you stand. Our positions - and perhaps our personalities are, I suspect, incompatible. You and I will never see eye to eye on this - or any other topic I can imagine. I know I've told myself a number of times that I'm done with you - only to get drawn back in. But, once again. I'm done.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I was, again, tempted to respond but I, again, deleted. Like @OwlDance said, I'm also tired of this bullshit.

I've found the "Ignore" list can help with this. I've also found that, for it to help, you have to let it do its job.