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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 11-19-2020, 05:22 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by RToyo86 View Post
While it doesn't seem to make much difference at race pace, does it help cool oil temps down quicker on a cool down lap?

For DD use I'll he grabbing one which seems perfect for a all weather car. I'm thinking maybe I'll just run a 5w30 during the summer months when the car sees light track duty and deal with this type of cooler not being particularly effective on track.
Only if the coolant temps are low enough to accelerate oil cooling.
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Old 11-19-2020, 05:54 PM   #142
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Have you ever observed your oil temps in normal operation? It's significantly higher than 200F, even just cruising on the highway at 70mph. This type of cooler will bring that temp down.
Toodling around town oil temp stabilizes at 190F. On the highway at 75mph, maybe 225F? With coolant around 210 maybe? Not much of a temperature delta to cool the oil... So it seems this thing is not so much an oil cooler as it is an oil heater to warm the oil up so that it doesn't lag behind coolant temp so much when starting out cold.

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This particular cooler will have no meaningful effect on track.
Yeah, all evidence points to totally not worth the effort for that function...
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Old 11-19-2020, 06:24 PM   #143
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Around town, 190-210 coolant, and ~210 oil is fairly normal, at equilibrium.

Highway cruising, 190 coolant 225-230 oil is also fairly normal.

Highway cruising in 3rd gear, simulating track rpms, will take that oil to 260 with a quickness. Less than 1 minutes, if already at equilibrium temps.
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Old 11-19-2020, 07:00 PM   #144
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While I have to open my hood to adjust the bypass valve, it beats the hell out of removing the bumper cover to tape off the cooler. I daily it just a smidge under half capacity. With full flow through the cooler, I can drive in anger, never below 5 Krpm for an unlimited duty cycle. Oil temp stays below 190F and drops to 150-ish when cruising. That's just bypass flow through the thermostatic plate. Coolant is always dead on. Never overheated. Hoses for the circuit are huge. I lose only a couple PSI. Barely measurable.

I should think about the trans and diff but the engine's stock.
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:21 PM   #145
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Right, but I don't think anyone here was claiming that the oil cooler changed the thermal properties of the oil. The plot is simply used to show pressure changes at various temperatures.
Nor was the person who collected/presented the data. I remember initially being impressed. Since then, I can only think about how slight changes to the experiment would yield vastly tighter curves, and how stupid it was to display the oil cooler data using the same function. It's still pressure as a function of engine speed as a function of temperature. Adding the oil cooler just limited the temperature range of the data taken.

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Pressure loss due to cooler is worth knowing, along with how much it cools the oil. That was the point of showing it.
You are the clever one to see head loss contributed by the oil cooler. OP never intended it. Total accident.

And, yes, absolutely worth knowing.
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:30 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
Nor was the person who collected/presented the data. I remember initially being impressed. Since then, I can only think about how slight changes to the experiment would yield vastly tighter curves, and how stupid it was to display the oil cooler data using the same function. It's still pressure as a function of engine speed as a function of temperature. Adding the oil cooler just limited the temperature range of the data taken.


You are the clever one to see head loss contributed by the oil cooler. OP never intended it. Total accident.

And, yes, absolutely worth knowing.
Yes, I agree. The oil cooler data pretty much becomes useless in the context you describe it in, other than the fact noted by by ZDan, which does give it some use in our discussion. That pressure loss becomes pretty important when you can see in the data that it is comparable to a 0W-20 with the use of 5W-30 oil. It gives him a fighting point for why it may be a better idea to go up in weight of oil rather than spend a bunch of money on an oil cooler and inherit some risks if you go cheap, or mess up in the process, or have a defect.

Well anyways, this subject has been beaten to death as always, and I think a lot of good points were covered. I think the rest of it is a waiting game to see what other results/data people can provide.
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Old 11-21-2020, 03:19 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
I should think about the trans and diff but the engine's stock.
You could attached a heat shield or wrap to the over/front pipe(s) and a head shield where the exhaust passes by the diff. The trans doesn't generate much heat itself but definitely takes in a bunch of heat from that hot pipe running right along side it.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:53 PM   #148
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You could attached a heat shield or wrap to the over/front pipe(s) and a head shield where the exhaust passes by the diff. The trans doesn't generate much heat itself but definitely takes in a bunch of heat from that hot pipe running right along side it.
I never really considered driveline losses before this forum/community. Old dogs learning new tricks.
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:45 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
In addition to cooling oil a bit under high-rpm operation, isn't the water/oil Forester-type primarily to get oil temps to operational more quickly? In normal operation it wouldn't be cooling the oil as both oil and coolant will be in the same ~200F +/- temperature range, shouldn't impact fuel economy...

I've seen reports of -15F cooling with the Forester cooler, but also this report showing no cooling: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...2&postcount=17

Anybody know how effective it is for continuous track usage?

I have the forester cooler (Ned Auto kit), with the coolant from the throttle body.

Before I installed it I was seeing 266F max oil temp. With the cooler the max I've seen is 248F I think. So around 18F of cooling. Maybe not enough for some people, but I'm satisfied. 15-20min track sessions.


I'm not sure if people saying it doesn't cool the oil have actually tried it? Maybe the throttle body piping (what I did) is better than the heater core piping.
Also if you run on tracks more demanding on the engine and have oil temp at 280F, even with 15F less, that's still a bit high I think.
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Old 11-22-2020, 11:09 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by nico_rsx View Post
I have the forester cooler (Ned Auto kit), with the coolant from the throttle body.

Before I installed it I was seeing 266F max oil temp. With the cooler the max I've seen is 248F I think. So around 18F of cooling. Maybe not enough for some people, but I'm satisfied. 15-20min track sessions.


I'm not sure if people saying it doesn't cool the oil have actually tried it? Maybe the throttle body piping (what I did) is better than the heater core piping.
Also if you run on tracks more demanding on the engine and have oil temp at 280F, even with 15F less, that's still a bit high I think.
Same ambient temps?

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Old 11-23-2020, 06:31 AM   #151
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Same ambient temps?

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I have been using the OEM style cooler for two years now. (NED kit piped into the throttle body) Here is my original comparison: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=3166393 In that case temps were close.

I have been logging temps ever since in a variety of conditions. 10-15 degrees is what it will get you. Highest I saw pre cooler was 280F on an average session, and post cooler the highest I have seen is 270F at the end of a very long session. Based off the curves in my original comparison, even the small cooler makes it slightly more stable, the temps hit more of a plateau. Usually I avoid hotter days and/or long sessions and I can be comfortable in the 250s.
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Old 11-23-2020, 07:34 PM   #152
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I have been using the OEM style cooler for two years now. (NED kit piped into the throttle body) Here is my original comparison: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=3166393 In that case temps were close.

I have been logging temps ever since in a variety of conditions. 10-15 degrees is what it will get you. Highest I saw pre cooler was 280F on an average session, and post cooler the highest I have seen is 270F at the end of a very long session. Based off the curves in my original comparison, even the small cooler makes it slightly more stable, the temps hit more of a plateau. Usually I avoid hotter days and/or long sessions and I can be comfortable in the 250s.

Amazing test results that gives me mixed feelings -- I can rest easy knowing that peak temps are "only" going to be around 280F but at the same time I wish I could do the easy sandwich-style oil cooler mod (rule prohibitive).

I've come to the conclusion though that 0w30 is probably the best weight to use when track days are involved and just picked up 4 jugs of Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX.
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Old 11-28-2020, 02:50 PM   #153
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Same ambient temps?

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Similar. The sessions without the cooler were pretty hot. But I have done sessions similarly hot with the cooler. I also have not notice a statistically significant oil temperature difference with a change in ambient temperature of 10-15F. Doesn't seems to affect oil temperature, but of course I would guess a 55F vs 95F ambient temp will make a difference.
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