From Gruppe-S to ACE club sport 400 headers

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by solidONE

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=107
201WHP on E85 on 949's car and dyno using and ACE header and delicious tune. 200whp on 91 in ideal conditions with everything set up perfect... maybe. 180 WHP on 91 ain't bad either, considering the torque curve.

i do not care at all anymore of absolute numbers
only relative gains before-after on the same exact dyno
and yea those torque curves are great!

i do not believe the DT's relative gains also

[churchx]

Who being sane cares about absolute results, when every dyno reads differently. Only relative gains against known baseline (preferably against something easily repeatable & common, eg. untuned stock) should ever be used for at least rough comparison.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

i do not care at all anymore of absolute numbers
only relative gains before-after on the same exact dyno
and yea those torque curves are great!

i do not believe the DT's relative gains also

We'll have to look, but I'm pretty certain 949 took baselines for their Blub right after picking it up from Carmax, before they started to work on it.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=37

[tomm.brz]

that s totally believable
and seems different to what Delicious claim, specially peak hp gains

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

that s totally believable
and seems different to what Delicious claim, specially peak hp gains

I dont feel like Delicious Tune's dynos were 'un-believable'.

Let's just say it was under 'ideal conditions' that they yielded more compared to their baseline than some others. It is what it is. lol

[PulsarBeeerz]

Maybe 4th vs 5th gear runs and an actual Dynojet vs a Dyno Dynamics setup to read like a Dynojet. Things to consider.

[Lantanafrs2]

Honest dyno charts dont sell parts

[Lynxis]

I've mentioned this before but mouth-pieces with parts to sell and gullible people who want to believe in the gains they think they bought tend to shut me down on this; Every believable independent dyno test on the A350 header with DT showed gains that are typical of other headers on the market and fall short of DT's marketing. Most people see no more than ~15whp peak gains on 91AKI with charts that don't look too different from the one posted by 949 above although most see a bit more peak gain than that.

There are people out there with stock -> modified peak gains on same (independent) dyno and fuel out there showing over 40whp gains although those people typically show low baseline readings and end up with typical modified readings. I've seen a few guys reporting around 140whp base reading and header+tune ending up at 190whp. A gain of ~50whp (or approx 25% gain) while NA is astronomical but the final number isn't unexpectedly high, it's that the baseline is usually unexpectedly low. In these cases, my suspicion is that they probably had an undiagnosed issue that was robbing power (partially clogged cat or issue with the stock tune) and the catless header and/or aftermarket tune resolved it.

Food for thought anyways.

[tomm.brz]

50whp, if done on the same dyno same condition, is believable only with e85

come on guys, stop the joke.....

50whp are the claimed gains of a stock hks v2 supercharger with 93oct and 39mm restrictor and HKS tune
and someone wants me to believe to gain 50whp with a NA FA20 with shitty fuel

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

50whp, if done on the same dyno same condition, is believable only with e85

come on guys, stop the joke.....

50whp are the claimed gains of a stock hks v2 supercharger with 93oct and 39mm restrictor and HKS tune
and someone wants me to believe to gain 50whp with a NA FA20 with shitty fuel

I don't believe it even with e85. Believable jumps in performance from bone stock on 91aki to full intake/exhaust and e85 puts most people at ~30whp peak gains assuming no other issues.

I don't mean to take away from Ace products. Compared 1:1 with every other header on the market, they ARE superior, but independent tests have resulted in no more than 5whp peak gain over alternatives. If you want the absolute best, ACE *IS* the header to get but compelling alternatives exist at half the price.

[weederr33]

Neither of these are the ACE but I noticed very little difference between the Cosworth and HKS headers I've had. I think most will do just fine unless you're trying to be a dyno queen or want every ounce of power squeezed out of an NA engine.

[tomm.brz]

i have ace header 350 anyway
of course I didnt pay the crazy 1700 dollars they ask on CSG or delicious or whatever it is lol
but a looot less
they like to say they have the exclusive but it s not true

and i m the first also on saying they are superb and best header I have tried anyway

they gave me crazy gains on my hks supercharger, giving me the opportunity of running leaner and more advanced timing
But on NA it s a bit different story, and I hate the exaggeration

[86MLR]

Full catless exhaust?

Dyno time?

Intake?

I keep seeing results from different header designs, not the supporting mods.

I think that all modifications need to be taken into consideration, especially whether the exhaust is modified after the header.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Full catless exhaust?

Dyno time?

Intake?

I keep seeing results from different header designs, not the supporting mods.

I think that all modifications need to be taken into consideration, especially whether the exhaust is modified after the header.

Not like a different airbox than stock, or a bit more free exhaust line gonna change much in a NA car
Just maybe the front pipe, that if catted could net as little as 5hp (or even less) less in higher rpm, but stock airbox is not restrictive at all


What's funny, is that DT claims those huge gains , with shitty fuel and stock airbox and stock front and stock catback... lol just make laugh more and more i think about it