wheel and tire combo for newbie track driver

[MoreBRZMoreCHRZ]

hi everyone!

i recently took my brz out to streets of willow and had an absolute blast!

Unfortunately, 20,000 miles and two full track days took a toll on the stock primacy's and i am now looking to replace them. but what to replace them with?

Here's my situation:

-daily driven, mostly hwy 50 miles a day

-I HOPE to track at least once a month

-no major power mods (FI) in the near future

-no tune

-perrin cold air intake, mishimoto induction hose and invidia q300 as far as power mods

-run master brake cylinder, stop tech lines, motul 660, and switch between project mu club racers and oem for track and DD.


With that said, my next, and hopefully last mod for a while (or at least until i can drive my car around a track decently) will be better wheels and tires.

SO, i'm thinking of running rpf1 17x8 +45 (as they seem to be the best bang for the buck) with performance tires, and putting economy tires (similar to the primacys) on the stockers, and switching out between the two whenn i DD or track, BUT....

(this is where i hope you wonderful people might guide me)

- am i thinking in the right direction? (i.e. 1 set for track 1 for dd)

-decent wheel size for pretty much stock power?

-what size tire for the 17x8?

-any details i left out that would be usefull to decision making?

-Am i completley wrong, and/or this topic has already been covered?

*disclaimer*
new to cars, new to racing, so im hoping for a easy no brainer set up for stock suspension (what's a camber?), that might be more expensive upfront but will be more cost effective in the long run for a aspiring race car driver to be

Anyways, any information / personal experience / tasteful sarcasm / or links to info buried in a sea of rambling on page 45 out of 237 would be much appreciated!

thanks in advanced!

[brzaapi]

I am far from an authority on any of your questions. But I think you deserve a reply.


Since you are just getting a taste of tracking, I believe you are on the right path of thinking.


1) Yes, for a DD car, running a set of street tires and 2nd track set make sense. As long as you don't mind doing the swap, and have the funds... it is great idea.


2) 17x8 is a good choice for most NA (tuned or otherwise) setup cars to include stock. It may not look as sharp as 18s or 19s, but you keep the weight down and wheel/tire cost down (usually) by sticking with a 17in rim. The RPF1s are a great starting wheel. They should serve you well while you learn some things on the track.


3) Tire Size - go to tirerack and use their simple tools. But, the two most common tire sizes for 17x8 rims will be 225/45-17 and 235/40-17. I imagine you could probably fit 245s as well. But right now you don't need that much rubber. By the time you do, well you'll know more and have a better idea of what you want from your car. That being said, if you want 245s..go for it. Anyways, 225s will have a lot of options, but you will be limited in tire choices at the 235/40 size. 225 vs 235.....at this point for simplicity sake. Lets just say it will matter more about what rubber compound you will running more than the extra 10mils. Lucky for you, your in SoCal. So temps windows (temperature operating range of tire) are not that big of a deal.


4) details - not really. But a lot of this is subjective depending on your wants and needs. I am trying to read you the best I can, but some things just cant be conveyed real well on a forum. If the car is a DD, then don't go too aggressive on a tire choice your first time out. What does that mean? Stay somewhere in the Michelin PSS to RE-11a to Hankook RS3 range of rubber. They will all be better than the stocker primacy's, BY FAR. When you track with new rubber your going feel the limits of the car really open up, you can push it harder and faster. Of course this allows for more speed in corners, so if you do screw up....you screw up bigger. I am not saying to buy one of the 3 tires above....but somewhere in the neighborhood of those tires. In 6-18 months when you burn them off. Then you will know if you want more from a tire. Yes be ready to buy new track tires every 6 to 18 months. Likely once a year, this is horribly subjective so I cannot tell how long a particular tire will last. But, you will be buying tires more than usual. I love buying new tires...and I budget for it accordingly.


5) No your not wrong. Yes it has been covered, but threads get old and dated and sometimes the conversation needs to be restarted.


I hope this helps. Maybe someone with some real knowledge will chime in.

[Lunatic]

When I 1st starting modifying my FRS I went with H&R super sport blue springs. This dropped my car a little over an inch. I then got 17 by 9 wheels 35 offset with Nitto NT01 235/40/17 tires. This was a perfect combination for the track. Really felt planted.
PS, if you go this route with lowering springs you also need camber plates to adjust your camber to you'll be wearing out your tires on the track.

[wparsons]

Whether you run one set of tires, or two, is really your call.

I got almost two full summers of daily driving (car has 90k km's since July 2012, it gets driven a lot), track and autox use from a set of Dunlop ZII's.

Personally, I don't want to drive around on crappier tires daily knowing that good rubber is sitting at home so I just drive on the good stuff all the time. I'm now running RS3 v2's (ZII star specs were going to be almost $400 cdn more than the RS3's, no thanks) with no negative side effects.

I priced out running two sets, and unless you can get 5 years out of the street tires you're better off just having one set. That's based on how much driving I do, and Canadian prices so your figures might vary.

I've got 17x8 +45's, with 225/45/17's. I've got -2* camber all around (camber bolts + slotted struts up front, natural camber from being 1" lower out back).

[continuecrushing]

17x8 wheels are great, and being in socal, you can off load wheels pretty easily since people swap so often(especially decent wheels like rpf1's)

What is you budget for tires?

[MoreBRZMoreCHRZ]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

I am far from an authority on any of your questions. But I think you deserve a reply.

WOW! Awsome detailed feedback! thanks for your thoughts!

within hours of me posting this, a friend of mine just told me he is selling his rpf1's 17x8 +35 with federal rs-r 235/40/17, and lug nuts (with around 1k miles on all(so basically brand new)) for less than the price of new rpf1's. so im pretty sure im gonna jump on that deal thanks to your confirmation as well as some good ol' power google-ing

and im sure now ill be switching between two sets of wheels.

from what i can gather, the tires arent the best. Yet, i'm sure i'm not an advanced enough driver to be as critical of rubber as other track warriors. hopefully when these tires get used up, i'll be more informed on this subject.

anyways im grateful for your input!

[MoreBRZMoreCHRZ]

Originally Posted by Lunatic

When I 1st starting modifying my FRS I went with H&R super sport blue springs. This dropped my car a little over an inch. I then got 17 by 9 wheels 35 offset with Nitto NT01 235/40/17 tires. This was a perfect combination for the track. Really felt planted.
PS, if you go this route with lowering springs you also need camber plates to adjust your camber to you'll be wearing out your tires on the track.

good to know! im wondering if the added expense and the added weight for the bigger wheel out performs (in lap times, tire wear rates, tire heat and other categories that i cant think and/or know of) helps the same size tire 235/40/17 on a smaller wheel.... any of these factors come into play when making your decision?

i'm also guessing camber has a big role to play when comparing the scenario above?

[MoreBRZMoreCHRZ]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Personally, I don't want to drive around on crappier tires daily

Hahaha as soon as i read that i knew i'd most likely feel the same way. But with the crap i've seen on the highway surface, and have rolled over, i would want to save the good rubber for when i would get the most out of it. Hopefully ill have the self control so i think im gonna at least try running two sets.

-from what i can gather the smaller tire (225) compared to the bigger tire (235) works better because the rim can hold the tire better? (less tire flex so less tire wear?)

-also im guessing the camber has plenty to do with tire wear and amount of contact with a tire gets with the road surface when tracking, so that said.....


-in your opinion (or if anyone else might be reading with knowledge on the subject), would it be "worth it" to go for camber adjusting parts for my next couple of go arounds on the track with whatever size tire wheel combo? i know thats pretty subjective, so "worth it" to put it simply, i guess i just dont want to buy tires and kill them in double or even tripple the time when i can get the camber parts and offset the cost of the parts with money saved on the wheels?


anyways thanks for the input!

[Lunatic]

Originally Posted by MoreBRZMoreCHRZ

good to know! im wondering if the added expense and the added weight for the bigger wheel out performs (in lap times, tire wear rates, tire heat and other categories that i cant think and/or know of) helps the same size tire 235/40/17 on a smaller wheel.... any of these factors come into play when making your decision?

i'm also guessing camber has a big role to play when comparing the scenario above?

I went for the 17 by 9 purely for looks. And 235 by 40 tires for circumference for gearing. For NA engines I believe a 17 by 8 and 225 tire will give faster lap times. But next year I hope to go FI so that also played into my choice of the 17 by 9 wheels.

[Fish Eagle]

Originally Posted by MoreBRZMoreCHRZ

WOW! Awsome detailed feedback! thanks for your thoughts!

within hours of me posting this, a friend of mine just told me he is selling his rpf1's 17x8 +35 with federal rs-r 235/40/17, and lug nuts (with around 1k miles on all(so basically brand new)) for less than the price of new rpf1's. so im pretty sure im gonna jump on that deal thanks to your confirmation as well as some good ol' power google-ing

and im sure now ill be switching between two sets of wheels.

from what i can gather, the tires arent the best. Yet, i'm sure i'm not an advanced enough driver to be as critical of rubber as other track warriors. hopefully when these tires get used up, i'll be more informed on this subject.

anyways im grateful for your input!

Nothing wrong with Federal 595RS-R in 235/40-17 - enjoy. I had a set of them and they worked well for me on road and on track. I'm now on a set of 235/45-17s and find them very similar to the 235/40s, and I like them too. Between these two, I had a set of Federal 595RS-Rs in 225/45-17 and they were crap. That specific size has a shallower tread so they wore out quickly and I found them quite squirrely on track - felt like they had thin sidewalls? The 235s are much better.

You'll find that 595RS-Rs have excellent cold grip so it's almost not necessary to warm them up when tracking. I've found them very predictable, and despite having excellent grip they let go quite gently. At the limit, they make a bit of noise, and once you get used to their "song" it's a great indicator of how close to the limit you are.

When they still have reasonable tread depth, they're quite good in the wet, but be careful when they're near the end of their life because they aquaplane quite badly.

[fatoni]

Just get tires. If you are new to the track, you probably won't be making use of the extra grip or need the extra consistency of a larger rim.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Just get tires. If you are new to the track, you probably won't be making use of the extra grip or need the extra consistency of a larger rim.

YEP, this. Mainly work on your basic skills. Have fun, and don't worry to much about rubber or alignment settings. That being said, yes alignment can have a tremendous impact on how your car corners and more importantly, how it feels to you in a corner. But, you got time. First push your car as it is, in time you will know what you want from it.


No rush, you got your whole life to race. You will never stop learning.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by MoreBRZMoreCHRZ

Hahaha as soon as i read that i knew i'd most likely feel the same way. But with the crap i've seen on the highway surface, and have rolled over, i would want to save the good rubber for when i would get the most out of it. Hopefully ill have the self control so i think im gonna at least try running two sets.

What kinds of stuff do you drive over??? If it's just dirt/pebbles/rocks, then don't even worry about it. If you're hitting big pieces of metal, I'd be more worried about more than the tires...

Driving on bad pavement isn't going to hurt good rubber in the slightest.