Tein Flex Z opinion

[churchx]

Mike: but he refers not some generic gravel rallying, but rather daily driving, and while "rally", but "Tarmac rally style", which i guess is probably something like what most think of spirited canyon driving on public roads. Goes inline with my feeling that as stock toyobaru are as low as it makes practical sense on average far from perfect non japan public roads, hence last thing i'd wish to lower it even more. I dislike a bit most makers targeting lowering customers, but heck, probably just because it's what sells and what is voted for with wallet, so hard to argue with such decision in business sense, even if because of that i miss out some quality products not made for stock height/clearance. Of course it's different question about in how many cases those that bought lowering suspension products, actually did that for track handling, and how many just for looks of "MOAR LOW". Seeing how often i see threads/posts about color of coilovers/staggered tire setups/265 wide tires/better looking but big and heavy wheels/flush looks/retrofitting good looking brake calipers .. from different car with different bias, i guess for suspension very possibly handling and practicality too are not among main prioritized reasons for average customer to shell out $.

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by BDotG

Okay that makes sense. This is my first set of coilovers on any car ever so maybe I was just used to the feeling of shitty coils in my friends cars.
I think for me it just seems like full stiff doesnt feel harsh. Maybe our roads are just decent here. Gonna play around with the settings tonight and see how less clicks from stiff feels.

Unfortunately many peoples bench mark for "better performance" in regards to suspension is the more NVH and harshness the better, 0 body roll, bumps that shake the car apart and the illusion of feeling like you're on rails.

Was even a common misconception of mine when I started driving. Get some coilovers, set those fuckers as stiff as they would go and clearly I was in race car mode.

Really though from my very limited understanding its really a balancing act between other parts of the car to begin with. Too stiff a suspension and a tire that can't keep up is bad. Just like a really good tire and too soft of a suspension. I could be pulling that out of my ass so take it with a grain of salt.

[BDotG]

Originally Posted by Shady195

Unfortunately many peoples bench mark for "better performance" in regards to suspension is the more NVH and harshness the better, 0 body roll, bumps that shake the car apart and the illusion of feeling like you're on rails.

Was even a common misconception of mine when I started driving. Get some coilovers, set those fuckers as stiff as they would go and clearly I was in race car mode.

Really though from my very limited understanding its really a balancing act between other parts of the car to begin with. Too stiff a suspension and a tire that can't keep up is bad. Just like a really good tire and too soft of a suspension. I could be pulling that out of my ass so take it with a grain of salt.

Makes total sense. I have no problem admitting a noob when it comes to this stuff so I am glad you guys could chime in. I will set the thing back a few click from full stiff and get a proper alignment done, might even just pay to have someone corner balance the suckers (probably not super worth it on these ones though).

[Mars2]

Originally Posted by churchx

Mike: but he refers not some generic gravel rallying, but rather daily driving, and while "rally", but "Tarmac rally style", which i guess is probably something like what most think of spirited canyon driving on public roads. Goes inline with my feeling that as stock toyobaru are as low as it makes practical sense on average far from perfect non japan public roads, hence last thing i'd wish to lower it even more. I dislike a bit most makers targeting lowering customers, but heck, probably just because it's what sells and what is voted for with wallet, so hard to argue with such decision in business sense, even if because of that i miss out some quality products not made for stock height/clearance. Of course it's different question about in how many cases those that bought lowering suspension products, actually did that for track handling, and how many just for looks of "MOAR LOW". Seeing how often i see threads/posts about color of coilovers/staggered tire setups/265 wide tires/better looking but big and heavy wheels/flush looks/retrofitting good looking brake calipers .. from different car with different bias, i guess for suspension very possibly handling and practicality too are not among main prioritized reasons for average customer to shell out $.

Spot on. I really don't understand how people can have spirited driving on twisty B road with those and or with a toybaru 1" more down. I already scratch the hell of my exhaust and lost two plastic panel from under car tray since I got those Flex Z and lowered my car 1". That car is plenty low enough OEM.
It's embracing when my wife say what is that noise again!!! Nothing darling we just grind the flour again!

"Tarmac Rally style" is driving your car on a twisty bumpy tarmac B road at same level of engagement and speed that you would drive it on a track so cutting all curve to shave time and to be able to pass those faster using he full left and right lane and also the side's of the road to get perfect trajectory. We do it very late night at hour's were those narrow twisty B mountain road are totally empty for sure. This already cost me a Subaru GC8 going out of curve at 110mph and landing on the roof on the rail way!

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Mars2

We do it very late night at hour's were those narrow twisty B mountain road are totally empty for sure. This already cost me a Subaru GC8 going out of curve at 110mph and landing on the roof on the rail way!

So you mean it's project D in French alpines. 😂

[SilverFRS]

This made me laugh, I put a B210 on its roof back in college, rallying around on farm roads in Texas, drifting around a corner too fast, hit the edge of the road (freshly graded) and ended up on the roof on the other side of the train tracks that ran next to the road, no side damage, just roof and glass.
Anyway, these are probably not for you, they only have 100mm(4") travel (front),take into account the 20mm bump-stop leaves you 80mm(3.2"), add in 48mm rebound travel leaves you 32mm((1.3") of bump travel at recommended settings. You can increase preload to increase your bump travel at the expense of rebound(droop) travel but I wouldn't do much as rebound travel is important too.

[shiumai]

I just got these installed today and the difference is immediately noticeable. I went from stock suspension with Swift springs. While I was satisfied with the Swift springs initially, I noticed that while the ride was comfortable, the rear end felt mushy with wallowing when hitting dips mid-turn in sweepers. I spoke to @CSG Mike about it after reading this thread and bought a set from CSG.
Immediately after install, I felt that the suspension was firmer, yet the ride was smoother. Road noise was reduced as well - most noticeably on the freeway. Ride height is approximately 1/4" lower than the Swift lowering springs, which is still a practical height without any rubbing. I didn't want it slammed. I'm going to be adjusting the settings based on my daily route to work over the next week or so, but I'm starting out with soft settings right now. So far, I'm happy with how it feels immediately - what a big improvement over what I had. It now feels much closer to what I imagined/hoped it would. Thanks to CSG and CSG Mike! (and also to West End Alignment who did the install, align and corner balance).

[Mars2]

Originally Posted by SilverFRS

This made me laugh, I put a B210 on its roof back in college, rallying around on farm roads in Texas, drifting around a corner too fast, hit the edge of the road (freshly graded) and ended up on the roof on the other side of the train tracks that ran next to the road, no side damage, just roof and glass.
Anyway, these are probably not for you, they only have 100mm(4") travel (front),take into account the 20mm bump-stop leaves you 80mm(3.2"), add in 48mm rebound travel leaves you 32mm((1.3") of bump travel at recommended settings. You can increase preload to increase your bump travel at the expense of rebound(droop) travel but I wouldn't do much as rebound travel is important too.

I also thought I should increase preload to get more travel but CSG mike told me to put minimum preload to get what I want. I try to turn it every way in my head and for me it doesn't make sense to put less preload for how I use the car.

What Coiler would have more travel? KW V3? I don't need to be lower than stock just want more travel.

One big crash in 33 year of " Rally style driving" is acceptable
I destroy my GC8 in 2001 when I was 35. they say I should calm down going old but doesn't look like that's working for me.

[Mars2]

this what Csg Reply me in an other thread.

"More preload = less compression/bump travel before hitting the bump stop."
I recommend running with minimum preload."


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=87

But unless it was possible to put so much preload that the spring will act as a bump stop because spear touch each other's before action of bump stop when compress. I don't understand it. May be I'm too much used to KW3 that I have on my two other car's where to rise the car you increase preload.

Please educate me on that.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Mars2

May be I'm too much used to KW3 that I have on my two other car's where to rise the car you increase preload.

Please educate me on that.

From what I understand, spring preload on the Flex Z is independent of ride height adjustment. Spring preload affects the amount of travel that the shock absorber is able to compress, and ride stiffness. ride height is adjusted by adjusting case length. when i got mine installed/aligned yesterday, they explained that you don't want any preload on the spring as you change the spring rate when you put preload on it.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Mars2

this what Csg Reply me in an other thread.

"More preload = less compression/bump travel before hitting the bump stop."
I recommend running with minimum preload."


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=87

But unless it was possible to put so much preload that the spring will act as a bump stop because spear touch each other's before action of bump stop when compress. I don't understand it. May be I'm too much used to KW3 that I have on my two other car's where to rise the car you increase preload.

Please educate me on that.

It's the opposite, more preload = more bump travel, less droop.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by shiumai

From what I understand, spring preload on the Flex Z is independent of ride height adjustment. Spring preload affects the amount of travel that the shock absorber is able to compress, and ride stiffness. ride height is adjusted by adjusting case length. when i got mine installed/aligned yesterday, they explained that you don't want any preload on the spring as you change the spring rate when you put preload on it.

For the Flex Z's spring rate doesn't change with preload, they're linear springs. Only progressive rate springs change their rate as they're compressed.

[Mars2]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

For the Flex Z's spring rate doesn't change with preload, they're linear springs. Only progressive rate springs change their rate as they're compressed.

that's also how I UNDERSTAND IT.

Like on Dirt bike the preload is just their to adjust the sag but doesn't affect spring rate.

[Mars2]

This what I got on my dirt bike manual:

Preload

Changing preload only compresses the spring more or less. This does not make the spring harder or softer it only changes the bikes balance. Unless you physically remove the spring and fit another, the spring rate will not change.

The preload only raises or lowers the portion of the bike above the corresponding wheel. It affects the bikes balance which means it makes the bike higher at the rear and lowers the front or vice versa. This in turn changes the geometry of the motorcycle and that will change the handling.

That is why preload can only help to balance the bike when the correct springs are fit. If the springs are too soft and you try to get the sag right by cranking the preload your handling will be way off.