What coilovers should I purchase?

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by WRBrzRX

what

STOP POSTING

If you want to lower the car then just fit lowering springs. By definition, coilovers cannot be the right Spring and damper combination except over a narrow RS GE of damper settings.

Ride height is a pita to adjust and return to the original chosen settings. Therefore, people rarely adjust their coilovers.

If you aren't going to adjust them periodically then you don't need them. There are a wide variety of springs available for fixed ride height cars. It is easy to find a set of dampers to match, almost every spring supplier knows what dampers to recommend, or should.

Only if you intend to change the ride height for different driving purposes do coilovers make any sense. Adjusting damper rates correctly requires a high level of expertise and knowledge of use of a lap timer.

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Tein Flex Z is what I'll be going for most likely, they're $1169+tax at FT86motorsports.com, which is within your budget. If you take it to a shop, you're looking at 4 hours of labour to install them and another 2 hours or so (this can vary) to do the alignment. So your total would run up to about 2K cad.

Is no one capable of working on their own car anymore?

[WRBrzRX]

OP just get some Flex Zs, they are not difficult to adjust in the slightest, please ignore this nonsense, you simply spin the collars and lock down the jam nut. 1 step.

[Stang70Fastback]

I think you're getting just a tad carried away here.

Originally Posted by Gforce

The car doesn't benefit from larger wheels.

That is demonstrably false. It depends on what you want out of the car. For example, the car absolutely benefits from wider wheels and tires if you participate in autocross, and even on fun, twisty back roads. Some people want sweet, drifty-drifty action. Others favor ultimate grip.

Originally Posted by Gforce

If you want to lower the car just buy a set of lowering springs compatible with the factory shocks. The factory offers a set of Eibach made springs. There are other suppliers.

Agreed that lowering springs are a good idea, especially if you're on a budget, but if you want wider wheels, then those aren't really an option after a certain point.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Coilovers are total overkill for this car unless you intend to actually adjust them for different purposes. The car is actually low enough to perform very well without shorter springs but Subaru/Toyota designed it from the start to be compatible with a one half inch to one inch drop which they then offered a spring set for. There was even a factory special offered either lowering springs in some market.

Well first off, there's the issue already mentioned that you kind of NEED coilovers if you fit wider tires. But there's also the fact that they are NOT overkill if you intend to fit wider and stickier tires, because they can outpace the stock suspension. Try having fun on 245 section RE71Rs with the stock suspension. The same suspension that feels firm and composed on the stock tires suddenly feels soft and sloppy. Suspension needs to be tuned to the tires and grip levels the car generates. Significantly increase the available grip, and you need to improve the suspension.

The stock suspension is fantastic, but that doesn't mean coilovers don't have their place, or are in any way "overkill" for every scenario. Quite the contrary.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Forget coilovers.

Unless you need to fit wider tires and still get useful amounts of camber, or want to reduce body roll with much stickier tires, or want to be able to stiffen up the suspension at an autocross, but then soften it up for daily driving afterwards, or...

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

Is no one capable of working on their own car anymore?

I live in an apartment, parking is outside, no garage, tools of any kind, no time either. And I'd rather let the professionals do it than install it blind, then make a thread asking people what I did wrong lol.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

I think you're getting just a tad carried away here.



That is demonstrably false. It depends on what you want out of the car. For example, the car absolutely benefits from wider wheels and tires if you participate in autocross, and even on fun, twisty back roads. Some people want sweet, drifty-drifty action. Others favor ultimate grip.



Agreed that lowering springs are a good idea, especially if you're on a budget, but if you want wider wheels, then those aren't really an option after a certain point.



Well first off, there's the issue already mentioned that you kind of NEED coilovers if you fit wider tires. But there's also the fact that they are NOT overkill if you intend to fit wider and stickier tires, because they can outpace the stock suspension. Try having fun on 245 section RE71Rs with the stock suspension. The same suspension that feels firm and composed on the stock tires suddenly feels soft and sloppy. Suspension needs to be tuned to the tires and grip levels the car generates. Significantly increase the available grip, and you need to improve the suspension.

The stock suspension is fantastic, but that doesn't mean coilovers don't have their place, or are in any way "overkill" for every scenario. Quite the contrary.



Unless you need to fit wider tires and still get useful amounts of camber, or want to reduce body roll with much stickier tires, or want to be able to stiffen up the suspension at an autocross, but then soften it up for daily driving afterwards, or...

You might explain how coilovers allow wider wheels when lowering springs do not.

Stock wheels and tires weigh about 42 lbs, much lighter than any reasonable alternative. Wider wheels are heavier and require wider tires. Larger wheels are heavier. On a car this low on power it's hard to see how more rubber is going to be better. Even with 260 hp I find 225/45x17 perfectly fine.

I'll stick by my assertion that larger wheels are of no benefit to this car. Stock wheels will be fine with a 225 section tire. There are no benefits to going any wider and nothing to be gained by going larger diameter.

Lowering the car and fitting larger wheels do not require coilovers. The factory proved that with one or more of their option packages.

[OND]

Originally Posted by Gforce

You might explain how coilovers allow wider wheels when lowering springs do not.

Dude can you just stop posting advice on topics that you have no experience on?

If you had actually seen a set of coilovers in real life, it would become obvious why they provide more clearance.

[strat61caster]

@Stang70Fastback Don't waste your time.

[Stang70Fastback]

You sound like you're making a whole lot of assumptions based on "intuition" without having much [if any] experience. In fact, I'm starting to suspect that you are a troll, but in good faith:

Originally Posted by Gforce

You might explain how coilovers allow wider wheels when lowering springs do not.

If you're honestly asking this question, then that can only mean that you're attempting to offer feedback and advice on a subject which you understand very little, if at all. Stock struts are much wider than aftermarket coilovers. You can only go so wide before you hit the spring perch. Yes, you can fit a 9" wide wheel on the stock suspension, but the tire will poke significantly from behind the fender, even on the highest offset you can fit. At that high offset, you will have ZERO room to add ANY amount of camber, and you need some camber if you want the car properly set up to take advantage of the wider tires and higher grip levels. You could mount a lower offset tire, but then you'll run into mexipoke issues, and you will also rub the insides of the fenders/firewall.

Coilovers allow you to add a higher offset wheel, which means no ugly poking wheel. The also allow you to add a few degrees of camber. Basically they eliminate the issues you run into with the stock suspension when fitting wider tires than stock.

Stock wheels and tires weigh about 42 lbs, much lighter than any reasonable alternative. Wider wheels are heavier and require wider tires. Larger wheels are heavier. On a car this low on power it's hard to see how more rubber is going to be better. Even with 260 hp I find 225/45x17 perfectly fine.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the stock 17x7 wheels are HEAVY because they are not optimized for weight. They are optimized for cost and mass-production. The stock 17x7 wheels weigh over 20 LBS. My 18x9 wheels weigh a hair LESS than the stock 17x7 wheels, and my 17x9 wheels that I use for autocross weigh several LBS less than the stock wheels. So again, it sounds like you're just making assumptions without actually doing any research.

You can say "it's hard to see how more power will be better" all you want, but unless you've actually tried it, what you are stating is just an opinion, and not fact. The fact is a car with 9" wide wheels will be faster around an autocross course than a car with 7" wide wheels. I'm not sure what power has to do with anything. We aren't talking about putting power down. No you don't need a wider tire to put the power down that this car generates. However, this is a MOMENTUM car. The whole point of this car is to carry speed through corners in order to make up for the power deficit. What's one way to carry more speed through a corner? A wider tire.

I'll stick by my assertion that larger wheels are of no benefit to this car. Stock wheels will be fine with a 225 section tire. There are no benefits to going any wider and nothing to be gained by going larger diameter.

A larger diameter is purely for show. I will agree with you there. (It does improve the response time of the tire due to the shorter sidewall, but it generally isn't worth the trade-off for purely performance reasons on this car.) However, there are plenty of benefits to a WIDER tire. Just because you don't believe this doesn't make it untrue.

Lowering the car and fitting larger wheels do not require coilovers. The factory proved that with one or more of their option packages.

I'm not aware of any factory option packages that include 9" wide wheels. I know the Performance Package comes with 7.5" wide wheels (which is purely to clear the Brembo brakes, and not to improve handling), and I think the TRD wheels might have been 8" wide?

[Icecreamtruk]

Gforce, you are so full of shit, I dont understand how the mods havent banned you yet.

Originally Posted by Gforce

You might explain how coilovers allow wider wheels when lowering springs do not.

Coilovers for the most part have a spring that is much smaller in diameter than most springs, allowing up to 1" of extra space inside the wheel well.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Stock wheels and tires weigh about 42 lbs, much lighter than any reasonable alternative. Wider wheels are heavier and require wider tires. Larger wheels are heavier. On a car this low on power it's hard to see how more rubber is going to be better. Even with 260 hp I find 225/45x17 perfectly fine.

Stock wheels are as heavy as they come, over 20lbs each, you can get wheels that are 15lbs each in stock size, or 17lbs in 17x9 and have a WIDER AND LIGHTER wheel. Tires are tires, you can use 225 or 235 tires on a 9" wheel and that will give you much better feedback AND be lighter than stock AND be stickier than stock.

Originally Posted by Gforce

I'll stick by my assertion that larger wheels are of no benefit to this car. Stock wheels will be fine with a 225 section tire. There are no benefits to going any wider and nothing to be gained by going larger diameter.

1.1gs of lateral grip on 215 tires vs 1.3gs on 245 of the same tire, just different width of tire and wheels, get out of here with your "pulled out of my ass" logic.

Originally Posted by Gforce

Lowering the car and fitting larger wheels do not require coilovers. The factory proved that with one or more of their option packages.

About the only thing you said that isnt total non sense. While it doesnt REQUIER coilovers, it doesnt mean you dont benefit from it. It all depends on your purpose with the car.

Seriously dude, gtfo of this forum, im tired of waking up to reading your shitposts everywhere, GO AWAY!

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

You sound like you're making a whole lot of assumptions based on "intuition" without having much [if any] experience. In fact, I'm starting to suspect that you are a troll, but in good faith:



If you're honestly asking this question, then that can only mean that you're attempting to offer feedback and advice on a subject which you understand very little, if at all. Stock struts are much wider than aftermarket coilovers. You can only go so wide before you hit the spring perch. Yes, you can fit a 9" wide wheel on the stock suspension, but the tire will poke significantly from behind the fender, even on the highest offset you can fit. At that high offset, you will have ZERO room to add ANY amount of camber, and you need some camber if you want the car properly set up to take advantage of the wider tires and higher grip levels. You could mount a lower offset tire, but then you'll run into mexipoke issues, and you will also rub the insides of the fenders/firewall.

Coilovers allow you to add a higher offset wheel, which means no ugly poking wheel. The also allow you to add a few degrees of camber. Basically they eliminate the issues you run into with the stock suspension when fitting wider tires than stock.



I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the stock 17x7 wheels are HEAVY because they are not optimized for weight. They are optimized for cost and mass-production. The stock 17x7 wheels weigh over 20 LBS. My 18x9 wheels weigh a hair LESS than the stock 17x7 wheels, and my 17x9 wheels that I use for autocross weigh several LBS less than the stock wheels. So again, it sounds like you're just making assumptions without actually doing any research.

You can say "it's hard to see how more power will be better" all you want, but unless you've actually tried it, what you are stating is just an opinion, and not fact. The fact is a car with 9" wide wheels will be faster around an autocross course than a car with 7" wide wheels. I'm not sure what power has to do with anything. We aren't talking about putting power down. No you don't need a wider tire to put the power down that this car generates. However, this is a MOMENTUM car. The whole point of this car is to carry speed through corners in order to make up for the power deficit. What's one way to carry more speed through a corner? A wider tire.



A larger diameter is purely for show. I will agree with you there. (It does improve the response time of the tire due to the shorter sidewall, but it generally isn't worth the trade-off for purely performance reasons on this car.) However, there are plenty of benefits to a WIDER tire. Just because you don't believe this doesn't make it untrue.



I'm not aware of any factory option packages that include 9" wide wheels. I know the Performance Package comes with 7.5" wide wheels (which is purely to clear the Brembo brakes, and not to improve handling), and I think the TRD wheels might have been 8" wide?

I will disagree with your first point about wide wheels sticking out. I have 17x9 +35 wheels with 245/40 tires and have zero poke. -3* camber front, -2.5 (or maybe a bit less, can't remember what the max SPC LCAs give), but still zero poking tire. I have almost no clearance between tire and strut, but it's enough to not be worried about rubbing.

That is all, may edit when I finish reading your post.

Edit: I'm on S Tech springs. So around 1.5" lower than stock I think. The rest of your post I agree with

[Gforce]

I was actually thinking of this handy little demo from road and track some time ago.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

Tires are not well understood. Especially not well understood is how a wider but shorter contact patch works, not always better. Larger diameter wheels with lower profile tires are even less likely to be better.

As far as comparing wheel weights it is true the stock wheel is, let us say robust, which is one reason my winter tires live there.

I was comparing the total weight of the stock wheel/tire to an aftermarket wheel/tire. It is surprisingly hard to beat the tire/wheel weight as delivered by Subaru. Even Subaru had some trouble because the Primacy is such a light tire. Of course if you want to put the Primacys on something lighter you'll get an even lighter package. Duh.

I was not aware that available coilovers were significantly smaller overall diameter than stock. That surprises me given that the stock springs and dampers are technically coilovers, just fixed height spring perches.

Hope that clarifies the facts for everyone.

Friendly bunch of egos on this forum. I've been following all the various topics since I bought my car. Learned a lot of what not to do. Funny thing is I ended up with a BRZ set up almost exactly like the factory set up for the 2017 model year, for the same reasons.

I've understood what needed to be changed since shortly after I bought this car, but nobody made the right springs. The aftermarket was catering customers many of whom don't understand how to build a great road car. Subaru was pretty smart waiting until the fifth model year before finally releasing the car that it should have in 2012.

Then I put a eForce on the engine. Subaru isn't going to do that much as some of us have always thought they should.

I know what I'm doing and why it works.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Cole

I will disagree with your first point about wide wheels sticking out. I have 17x9 +35 wheels with 245/40 tires and have zero poke. -3* camber front, -2.5 (or maybe a bit less, can't remember what the max SPC LCAs give), but still zero poking tire.

Well yeah, you have triple the camber up front and a degree or more in the rear than stock. I was looking at this thread and if you were planning on using stock suspension (and/or just lowering springs) and concerned about looks it would likely be a mistake to go 17x9+35 and keep factory alignment specs.


17x9+35
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=27

17x9+45
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=28

Edit: I totally appreciate your post, I have 17x9+45's and I'm thinking about going to a lowering spring and was a bit concerned about being able to get enough camber up front, I might need a 10mm spacer but at least I know it's possible.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Well yeah, you have triple the camber up front and a degree or more in the rear than stock. I was looking at this thread and if you were planning on using stock suspension (and/or just lowering springs) and concerned about looks it would likely be a mistake to go 17x9+35 and keep factory alignment specs.

Remember, 'Stangs point was with respect to keeping the stock strut and being concerned about clearance.

17x9+35
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=27

17x9+45
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=28

Entirely glossed over that fact. Derp. But, I also ASSumed that being a conversation about performance parts, that a performance alignment would go along with that. It's all good, seeing that @Gforce is pretty set that stock is the best, and you should change to stock springs and a fat front sway, I should have interpreted that to mean that the stock alignment was the best way to go.

Also, as far as weight goes, they could have gone with a lighter wheel set up for sure. As it is, my wheels and tires, 2" and 30cm wider than stock is still a few pounds lighter than stock. And that's not even with big boy baller wheels. Those are wheels that cost less than 1k

Edit: also Strat, I forgot to mention I have a 3mm spacer up front, bit of extra peace of mind, but I'll be honest, I did that mostly for looks.