My first impressions of Gen 2 while still having a Gen 1 car

[Jegan_V]

Hey everyone, I finally got to drive a 2nd gen BRZ Sport-tech(or Limited for US). This will be from the perspective of someone who owns a stock Gen 1, I drove my Gen 1 over to test a Gen 2 and I went home in my Gen 1 car. The other aspect of my perspective is I've driven a lot of mainstream cars particularly from around Model year 2007 to 2015 as I work with fleet cars, much easier to ask me what I haven't driven vs what I have in those periods. I still drive some modern cars but nowhere near as much as I used to. I also hope to cover some minor things that reviewers might've missed.

So as I write this down I will be using my 2014 FRS Monogram as the baseline. For the record I have no experience driving any of the refreshed cars for 86 or BRZ.

Fundamentals:

Engine:

Comparing this to the FA20, this FA24 engine unquestionably has more torque everywhere. Even at lower speeds in a high gear that would lug a Gen 1 car, this car can power through that. Due to the notable increase in torque the entire range, the best thing about this engine is it feels like it keeps pulling the entire rev range, progressively better all the time. For everyday driving this engine makes the car much easier to live with, the need to change gears is much lower here than a Gen 1. This is a notable improvement, so if your main concern with the Gen 1 was it just needed a bit more power for you to be truly happy then this FA24 engine will absolutely please you. It pulls but it won't be as strong as a Mustang 5.0L V8.

There is talk about the throttle response. As far as I'm concerned, the response is still good and feels like a NA engine should. It may be because of how much pull the new engine has. Having driven cars that had crap throttle response because of their turbo, this is not a worry I would have for a Gen 2. If you really look for it, you might feel a minuscule delay but I think this is more to do with the drive-by-wire system than anything. Wouldn't notice normally.

Transmission(Manual):

As far as the transmission goes, this feels a bit shorter in throw over a Gen 1. Gen 1 is more notchy this transmission is more smooth. So from the gear shifter this is a straight up upgrade, this feels harder to make mis-shifts. Layout and reverse lockout is identical to Gen 1. As for the clutch, the bite point is different than Gen 1. So if you're extremely used to Gen 1's unique bite point location, Gen 2 will require you to learn for the first bit, so yes I stalled it on my first turn lol. As for how this bite point is, this is more traditional feels closer to how my 2004 Impreza's was only significantly easier. It didn't take me too long to adjust to this clutch so don't worry about that aspect. Clutch feel is slightly better actually and the pedal is still rather light, seems slightly lighter than even Gen 1. I did not notice rev hang, so if there is any I didn't really notice it or its equivalent to Gen 1's.

Handling:

Gen 1 handles very good, when it comes to Gen 2 it feels even more competent in the corners. I feel less body roll than I do in Gen 1 and Gen 1 is already very impressive. So the better torsional stiffness and the lower CoG can be felt over Gen 1. This was already very strong for the original car, because Gen 2 kept the fundamentals its better. The Pilot Sport 4 tires are very competent even when its this cold, so much better than the Primacys. These tires are actually kind of quiet.

Steering feel:

A very important topic for these cars, this is perhaps the one area where I actually prefer Gen 1 slightly more. Thetopher mentioned this in his video that there is a difference and I noticed this myself. So, comparing to a mainstream car, this car is fantastic. Thus I'm instead comparing it to the higher standard set by Gen 1. In a Gen 1 car, I can actually feel a lot of things like road harshness quite clearly, for an electric power steering rack Gen 1 is excellent. When I drove Gen 2, the feel is actually still there but its more muted, I don't notice things as clearly as I would driving a Gen 1 car. Gen 2's steering is still very good but I wonder if its the refinement that took some of this raw feel out. If there is a way to make this steering feel a bit more like Gen 1 I would pursue that.

Brakes:

I didn't find a huge difference in the brakes between generations. The brake pedal feel on Gen 2 is improved for me. Ultimately however I can't really test it out as vigorously like on a track, but for street purposes they're very good.

Ride comfort:

I know sports cars are not soft luxury barges, but there are those rare 1% days where I think my FRS is extremely annoying because of how harsh it takes nasty bumps. FRS was literally on the cusp of being unacceptable for me in ride comfort. Gen 2 BRZ is a lot better at dampening this, I purposely picked a somewhat nastier road to drive on to feel that. Even with the 18 inch wheels this rode better than my FRS that's currently on its 16 inch winters. This for me is the best improvement for Gen 2 over Gen 1, more than the engine. Gen 2 rides better than some of the normal cars I've driven...not sure if it says how good Gen 2 is or how bad those cars are.

Seat comfort:

This will be from the perspective of a not very tall male(I'm 5'6) and I'm overweight. I already consider Gen 1's seat comfort to be a strong point of that car. Gen 2's seats, they actually managed to improve it further, these seats are more snug and feel more accommodating. Lumbar I think is something that might've annoyed some on the Gen 1, although Gen 2 still has no adjustment for lumbar this time for me it felt like it had some. I took my parents along and they both felt this car was more comfortable to be in, including for the person in the back.

Visibility:

Gen 1's strengths was its excellent forward visibility. Gen 2 carries this on without any negatives. Rear visibility is also very similar to Gen 1, not the greatest but serviceable even if this car didn't have a rear camera. The blindspots feel the same too, so if you have the mirrors adjusted correctly you shouldn't have problems. The only thing Gen 2 higher trim brings to add here is rear cross traffic alert, this is a welcome addition and is helpful in instances you're backing out.

Other considerations:

Interior:

I'll start off with the dashboard, this car went all digital and truth be told I like it. Speedometer is very easy to read, the tachometer however I think was slightly harder to read on the normal layout. Track mode read outs I actually like very much, personally I think normal mode should have track mode's bar tachometer except with the numbering evenly spaced.

Climate control unit, this is a improvement on the dual HVAC units of the Gen 1s. The large knobs are easier to use and have a textured feel, read outs are clear while the switches while a bit different feel more better built than the one on Gen 1.

The head unit, those of us with the old Scion touch screen head units and probably any of the other Toyota ones. This Subaru one is unquestionably better and faster as my Scion one is notably slower. The sound system, I think it a good upgrade over the system in Gen 1. Not an audiophile but my FRS was borderline unacceptable, whereas the Gen 2 BRZ I feel its acceptable, so I likely wouldn't even consider an aftermarket one. A minor item of note, if you play music and have it titled not in English, this head unit might actually display it. I had both Chinese and Japanese, and it read them without issue. My Scion head unit displays nonsense.

Interior quality, where some Gen 1s particularly earlier FRSes had a cheap feel and look to them. Gen 2's materials are a straight up improvement in several areas. Some of the hard plastics will seem the same, the touch points on Gen 2 however I think are just a bit nicer.

Interior spacing I think is identical to Gen 1. They say its a bit smaller but I honestly didn't notice. The back seat area is still identical in layout and spacing to Gen 1. Trunk opening is still not very good. So zero changes that I can see in this specific area.

Sound generator, I know a big fuss was made about it but I found that when you drive this car normally it is genuinely not an issue. You start hearing it as you push this car harder but I actually didn't mind it. However I think this will be a person to person thing. For myself if I owned it I'd likely leave it. The Gen 1 car I did plug the sound tube hole, I didn't like it in that car.

Cup holders and other things. There are 2 USBs and an aux jack in the center console area facing upwards. I use a normal flash disk for my USB music but because of the layout, if your stick is normal sized you might not be able to close the door for your center console. Gen 1's location it didn't matter if your USB stick was large, but it only had one. I sort of miss the small hole in Gen 1 by the USB/aux, that actually was where I put my sunglasses holder...I thought the map light area hid a sunglasses holder because it looked like it had one...but it didn't. Perhaps Gen 2 owners can enlighten me as to a good place to put sunglasses, I didn't really see an easy place for it.

Minor things:

Turn stalks, I noted in an earlier thread in the GR86 subforum that this might be an area I wouldn't like after noticing them. I was correct, I don't like these ones, there were two instances on my drive where self cancelling lead to wrong signalling. Is it the worst turn stalks however? No, definitely better than the bad BMW ones. Would I pay to get Gen 1 stalks on if they fit? Yes. Would I refuse to buy the car because of this however? No. I just think this change was unnecessary, I don't like the idea of adding any ambiguity when the previous solution had none.

Fuel door, this is different as well. Gen 1 and as far as I recall most Japanese and Korean cars its a locking one. Gen 2 has gone the route of something I find more common on German cars, this one is push in to open. This is not a good or bad, just different, if you need a locking one then you might think this is bad. Edit: Turns out it does lock, you need to lock the vehicle so that the fuel door won't open despite pushing it.

Door pulls, this is rather different. I do think the door pulls from Gen 1 would be helpful, but I do think overall Gen 2's is serviceable. Only because the pulls seem more useful for 2-doors, whereas what Gen 2 went with seems better suited for sedans.

Things I couldn't or didn't test:

I couldn't test night time illumination because this was on a partly sunny day. I also couldn't check to see how well the turning headlights work either.

I also realized I forgot the steering wheel controls for the audio. Early Gen 1 not having them I've been so used to never using them.

Conclusions:

Is this car everything the reviewers say it is? For the most part I'd say yes I don't recall disagreeing with them about anything when it came to this car.

This overview is mostly focused on the Gen 1 owner, if you're wondering should I bother getting Gen 2 if I have Gen 1 and have a FOMO moment? Even though I noted many positive things about Gen 2 over Gen 1, ultimately I would actually say no. This is most important to Gen 1 owners who have much older and higher mileage cars and are unlikely to get fantastic values for their vehicle, you ultimately are not missing out by sticking to Gen 1 and to me it says how excellent Gen 1 is. When I drove home in my Gen 1, I didn't feel like I was driving a POS which is a bit easier to feel on a more mainstream family car. I was still happy driving my Gen 1 home. If the goal was to make Gen 1 seem bad, then Gen 2 I don't think did that. Still, if you're on the fence, I highly recommending test driving one, if Gen 2 corrects the things you were annoyed about Gen 1, test driving is the only way to confirm that.

The Gen 1 ownership however I think dilutes Gen 2's strengths simply because its actually not that far behind in most areas, where it feels like a modest upgrade thus coming from another car may be why Gen 2 praises are super strong.

This may be a different story for those with a late Gen 1 with low miles, if you can effectively get more money from your Gen 1 than you actually paid for it...Gen 2 being a super cheap upgrade is then totally worthwhile. In a few areas the Gen 2 car is effectively a Gen 1 done better.

I think for those who are coming into a twin now and never had one, if Gen 1s are silly expensive in your area, Gen 2 is much more worthwhile. For this category of prospective buyers, Gen 2 is effectively an improved Gen 1 or a Gen 1 plus.

For myself, I can say I do want a Gen 2, again for me its that ride comfort that actually swayed me for others it might be the engine. However this is heavily determined by how much I can sell my FRS for. For not much money no I can go knowingly that its much better for me to keep my FRS. If I get a good price for my FRS, I have no hesitation ordering a Gen 2 right now.

Let me know if I missed anything, I think I covered at least the necessities and wasn't too much rambling.


Edit 1: Thanks to @timurrrr and @Rossman for the correction on the fuel door, it does lock

[Sport-Tech]

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, great comparison.

The major miss for me personally with the new twins is that they didn't deign to bring Toyota's rev matching tech currently on the Corolla to the MT. If that had been included I'd be down at the nearby Toyota dealer rather than typing this out.

[tenderization]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, great comparison.

The major miss for me personally with the new twins is that they didn't deign to bring Toyota's rev matching tech currently on the Corolla to the MT. If that had been included I'd be down at the nearby Toyota dealer rather than typing this out.

Would have been a great use for the middle blank button behind the shifter.

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, great comparison.

The major miss for me personally with the new twins is that they didn't deign to bring Toyota's rev matching tech currently on the Corolla to the MT. If that had been included I'd be down at the nearby Toyota dealer rather than typing this out.

I agree, I know there are some MT people who argue against it for some reason, although I saw this more on 370Z forums than any other. Certainly would be a nice optional toggle feature, I can only wonder if an omission was made to save as many microchips though as Corolla added this prior to chip shortages.

[Rossman]

@Jegan_V - as regards to the fuel door - it does actually lock and you need to unlock it with the key fob, the difference is its push to open, instead of having the release on the floor by the drivers seat.

[Midnightsky]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, great comparison.

The major miss for me personally with the new twins is that they didn't deign to bring Toyota's rev matching tech currently on the Corolla to the MT. If that had been included I'd be down at the nearby Toyota dealer rather than typing this out.

Probably being saved for the refresh in a couple of years.

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by Rossman

@Jegan_V - as regards to the fuel door - it does actually lock and you need to unlock it with the key fob, the difference is its push to open, instead of having the release on the floor by the drivers seat.

Thanks for letting me know it actually can be locked, just so I get it right does it lock at the same time as when you lock the whole vehicle and vice-versa?

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

I agree, I know there are some MT people who argue against it for some reason, although I saw this more on 370Z forums than any other. Certainly would be a nice optional toggle feature, I can only wonder if an omission was made to save as many microchips though as Corolla added this prior to chip shortages.

The technical reason is that you need extra sensors in the gearbox to tell which gear is (about to be) selected to rev match precisely and quickly.

A naive auto rev match downshift algorithm could look at whether you were accelerating or decelerating/braking right before pressing the clutch pedal, and pick a gear up or down. But then two situations are possible:

1. You decide to skip a gear on an upshift, e.g. I frequently shift from 4th straight to 6th. If it rev matches assuming the 5th gear, you end up with too many revs, causing a jolt.
2. Nothing mechanically prevents you from heel-toe "down"shifting from 5th to 6th (ask me how I know...). If the ECU blips the throttle in a way to bring the rpms to what it would be had you downshifted correctly, the car will first jump forward. If you were at/near the limit of traction (e.g. track day), this will cause understeer and likely missing the apex. Then the car will be flying into a corner off the optimal line, with the front loaded, and no ability to transfer weight to the rear. That's a recipe for a spin, and a lawsuit

[timurrrr]

Thanks for the write-up!

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

I feel less body roll than I do in Gen 1 and Gen 1 is already very impressive. So the better torsional stiffness and the lower CoG can be felt over Gen 1.

Torsional stiffness and CoG lower by a couple of mm are "refinement".
The real "meat and potatoes" here are the significantly stiffer springs.

I bet $100 that had you swapped the springs and dampers between a bone stock 1st gen car and a bone stock 2nd gen car,
the 1st gen car with 2nd gen springs and dampers would have less body roll than the 2nd gen car with 1st gen springs and dampers.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

Fuel door, this is different as well. Gen 1 and as far as I recall most Japanese and Korean cars its a locking one. Gen 2 has gone the route of something I find more common on German cars, this one is push in to open. This is not a good or bad, just different, if you need a locking one then you might think this is bad.

According to the 2022 BRZ Owner's Manual, it is locking.
You can't open it when the car is locked.
The car needs to be unlocked to be able to open it.
Even further, it doesn't unlock if you lock the doors and then unlock any of the doors with the small black "flag" lock next to the interior door handle.
You must use the key fob, or the interior "Unlock both doors" button to unlock the fuel door.

Simply put,
I believe a random stranger can't open it when the car is parked.
Also I presume a random bypasser can't open it if you're waiting at a traffic light while the car is running — can you please confirm that?

[nikitopo]

@Jegan_V : Thanks for the detail and the up to the point review! It is pretty much what I was expecting. I agree about the comments of the torque feel and that the engine keeps pulling on the entire rev range. Nothing new to Subaru engines, since this was also the main differentiation between an EJ20 and an EJ25 engine. My only addition would be that the FA20 engine had the potential to pull a bit harder on top rev range and get around 215hp (catalog performance), but it was the first try and they wanted to keep it a bit conservative. About the other points, I had a chance to own a '20 model for 6 months and I could also see the difference and the improvement on ride comfort. It was definitely where Subaru and Toyota were moving towards chassis and suspension performance, giving a more subtle and less harsh ride. I wouldn't say this would be a definite factor for performance driving on a smooth road, but it adds a lot on ordinary daily driving across city and nasty bumps. I can see your point that you say about not moving over from your Gen 1 car to Gen 2. I feel the same especially after devoting time and money to modify my car and dial out a few small things common to Gen 1. A Gen 2 car would definitely be an improvement, but not that much of an improvement to validate the price difference of buying an entirely new car.

[Veloist]

I have the auto rev match on my Corolla Hatchback...I’ve put just shy of 15k miles on this car in 9 months and I’ve honestly never really touched it except in traffic when speeds are enough to stay in gears 2-4 so I can see how that’s helpful. If it’s for performance/lap times then I can’t really relate. I will give credit to Toyota for putting it in such a regular car.

Thanks for the insight on the 2nd gen. I got a chance to drive @puppers BRZ and I agree with everything you said. I noticed the steering feel difference right away...actually even just pulling some of the BRZ’s around in the dealership I felt it right away.

I think for an inexpensive sports car the 1st gens did set a pretty high standard for steering feel, most notably the tS because of the tuning and being the only 1st gen on the Pilot Sports 4 too (although I think there was a TRD 86 GT package that wasn’t really well known).

The 1st gen’s steering feel was also a factor when I was observing first impressions on the GR Supra. It’s been a while since I’ve driven a GR Supra since I sold mine in the summer but I remember I wasn’t a fan even in the sport mode. Based off of what I remember, I feel the 2nd gen steering feel is still better than the GR Supra’s.

[Veloist]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

According to the 2022 BRZ Owner's Manual, it is locking.
You can't open it when the car is locked.
The car needs to be unlocked to be able to open it.
Even further, it doesn't unlock if you lock the doors and then unlock any of the doors with the small black "flag" lock next to the interior door handle.
You must use the key fob, or the interior "Unlock both doors" button to unlock the fuel door.

Simply put,
I believe a random stranger can't open it when the car is parked.
Also I presume a random bypasser can't open it if you're waiting at a traffic light while the car is running — can you please confirm that?

Rule of thumb is if driver’s door is unlocked, the fuel filler door will be unlocked.
So yes if you are stopped at a traffic light and you have your drivers door in the unlocked position it can be opened.

Edit: actually I’m wondering if opening the door unlocks the fuel filler door. I’ll have to test it out lol.

[Rossman]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

Thanks for letting me know it actually can be locked, just so I get it right does it lock at the same time as when you lock the whole vehicle and vice-versa?

That appears to be what the user manual indicates.

Push the rear side of the fuel filler lid.
If the fuel filler lid is locked, perform one of the operations below.
 Press the “<unlock icon>” button on the key fob.
 Press the unlock side of the power door locking switch