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Old 11-21-2021, 12:48 PM   #2857
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Actually he will start on the clean side.... after receiving a 5-place penalty for ignoring yellow flags. Bottas received a 3-place penalty for the same thing, as apparently the FIA decided it was finally time to drop any sort of pretense and just hand both championships to Merc.

Max ignored double waved yellows. Bottas ignored single waved yellows. Sainz avoided penalty for the same thing as Bottas so apparently the bias is in favor of Ferrari as usual.

Of course you probably knew the penalties where not the same. Just channeling your inner Karen Horner. Especially after FIA decided to ignore Merc’s request for review on the Brazil incident. What a precedent that sets for future incidents. It shouldn’t have been a penalty since Lewis got the job done anyway and no blood no foul. But still, come on. What are we going to consider acceptable in open wheel?

Fuck yea Alonso.
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Old 11-21-2021, 01:42 PM   #2858
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Max ignored double waved yellows. Bottas ignored single waved yellows. Sainz avoided penalty for the same thing as Bottas so apparently the bias is in favor of Ferrari as usual.

Of course you probably knew the penalties where not the same. Just channeling your inner Karen Horner. Especially after FIA decided to ignore Merc’s request for review on the Brazil incident. What a precedent that sets for future incidents. It shouldn’t have been a penalty since Lewis got the job done anyway and no blood no foul. But still, come on. What are we going to consider acceptable in open wheel?

Fuck yea Alonso.
Nobody "ignored" anything! The drivers didn't see any warnings on their dash/steering wheels. They were told by their pits that it was green, good to go. They were looking at their exit points, the car to the right and the flag stand at start/finish, again on the right. The FIA FUCKED UP! That one, lone marshal was doing his duty.
Have you ever raced before? How about marshaling? When there is a slow moving vehicle on track past a flag post that sector's marshals should show a held yellow to indicate you're coming up on a situation. (This was not done) The marshal at the flag post in the sector of the slow moving vehicle should show a single waved yellow. (This was done) When there is a stopped vehicle in that marshal's sector he/she must show double waved yellows. They are removed when the chief marshal/clerk of the course or other ranking official tells the marshal to do so. Usually, in the case of a stopped vehicle, after all competitors have seen the vehicle and it then becomes part of the course.

FIA didn't ignore Merc's request. They (along with the race stewards from that race) reviewed all the telemetry and video (including in car) and said that they were sticking with their original decision. So, there was no need for yet another inquiry.
What is clear is that the FIA/stewards/etc. take more into consideration. Like: How much and what type of run off there is, did one party gain a greater advantage than the other etcetera, etcetera...

It's not like Hamilton hasn't done the very same thing to competitors and team mates alike in the past. Ask Nico!
What is known is that:
A/ the driver overtaking must be able to make the pass cleanly.
B/ the driver being overtaken must not move more than once to protect his position.
C/ drivers should leave room for passing and being passed. (Although, its not clear that said room has to be all track surface.)
D/ FIA/stewards have the final say


By the way, I'm not taking the piss with ya mate. It's just my wife LOVES Hamilton and HATES, HATES, HATES Max with a passion! F1 race weekends are tense in my house.
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Old 11-21-2021, 02:18 PM   #2859
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Originally Posted by Stephen W. View Post
Nobody "ignored" anything! The drivers didn't see any warnings on their dash/steering wheels. They were told by their pits that it was green, good to go. They were looking at their exit points, the car to the right and the flag stand at start/finish, again on the right. The FIA FUCKED UP! That one, lone marshal was doing his duty.
Have you ever raced before? How about marshaling? When there is a slow moving vehicle on track past a flag post that sector's marshals should show a held yellow to indicate you're coming up on a situation. (This was not done) The marshal at the flag post in the sector of the slow moving vehicle should show a single waved yellow. (This was done) When there is a stopped vehicle in that marshal's sector he/she must show double waved yellows. They are removed when the chief marshal/clerk of the course or other ranking official tells the marshal to do so. Usually, in the case of a stopped vehicle, after all competitors have seen the vehicle and it then becomes part of the course.

FIA didn't ignore Merc's request. They (along with the race stewards from that race) reviewed all the telemetry and video (including in car) and said that they were sticking with their original decision. So, there was no need for yet another inquiry.
What is clear is that the FIA/stewards/etc. take more into consideration. Like: How much and what type of run off there is, did one party gain a greater advantage than the other etcetera, etcetera...

It's not like Hamilton hasn't done the very same thing to competitors and team mates alike in the past. Ask Nico!
What is known is that:
A/ the driver overtaking must be able to make the pass cleanly.
B/ the driver being overtaken must not move more than once to protect his position.
C/ drivers should leave room for passing and being passed. (Although, its not clear that said room has to be all track surface.)
D/ FIA/stewards have the final say


By the way, I'm not taking the piss with ya mate. It's just my wife LOVES Hamilton and HATES, HATES, HATES Max with a passion! F1 race weekends are tense in my house.

Raced? Cars no, just track days and TT. MotoX, yes. Flagged for local races too, though that is a whole different deal.

You can see the double waved yellows on Max’s onboard. It was on the straight, there wasn’t an exit point to look at. It is about 50 meters before Pierre’s car. That is the marshal’s on the spot call to make, and that is what was shown.

The stewards also admitted to never seeing Max’s onboard at Brazil before ruling out any investigation. Deny the right to review would have been a more appropriate phrase. I think we all deserve to know why the call was made that way for future precedent as I said.

I personally don’t dislike any driver except for Mazapin. I just get tired of the fanboys from both sides ignoring what is obvious.
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Old 11-21-2021, 08:03 PM   #2860
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Originally Posted by reni View Post
Actually he will start on the clean side.... after receiving a 5-place penalty for ignoring yellow flags. Bottas received a 3-place penalty for the same thing, as apparently the FIA decided it was finally time to drop any sort of pretense and just hand both championships to Merc.
They got different flag signals, this is an instance where the fia was even handed and consistent with their penalties, 3 places for a single yellow (same as Hamilton got last year) and 5 places for double yellow (same as Norris and Russel got last year), probably more incidents of that but I'm not digging super deep.

And I have raced and flagged before, yellows are yellows and sometimes even the greats screw up or take a calculated risk, this was nothing to get panties in a twist over.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:13 PM   #2861
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Hey, whatever happens, at least this has been an interesting full season in terms of the championship. Couldn't say that about the last what, 5+ years now? And then even before that when RB was dominating.

I want Max and RB to win to break the Mercedes streak, and it would be a great send off to Honda too. But either way, I am enjoying this season.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:26 PM   #2862
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Hey, whatever happens, at least this has been an interesting full season in terms of the championship. Couldn't say that about the last what, 5+ years now? And then even before that when RB was dominating.

I want Max and RB to win to break the Mercedes streak, and it would be a great send off to Honda too. But either way, I am enjoying this season.
Vettel had two dominant seasons and two very very close seasons in 2010 and 2012 that he only won by 4 and 3 points over Alonso respectively. He deserves more credit for his run and the pressure he put on Lewis in '17-'18.

I expect Lewis sweeps the next two and wins by 5+ points, I'm appreciating the level of talent I've gotten to witness, Alonso, Raikkonen, Vettel, and Hamilton in their primes, we've had a rare ~15 year run with the goat and plenty of worthy challengers. If vercrashen and Racey Spice were less petty maybe I'd be rooting for them but they've been pretty shitty this year. Either way it goes down this year will be memorable.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:55 AM   #2863
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Me watching Alonso on the podium
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Old 11-22-2021, 02:12 PM   #2864
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Mercedes are expected to use the engine built for Brazil, which was not fitted for Qatar, for the Saudi Grand Prix.

Another interesting thing, if Max gets 1st, and Hamilton either DNF or finishes 6th, he's all set and crowned champion. Oh boy..... it would be a shame to have a race incident to reach that result, but it can happen. Senna vs Prost vibes.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:14 PM   #2865
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Mercedes are expected to use the engine built for Brazil, which was not fitted for Qatar, for the Saudi Grand Prix.

Another interesting thing, if Max gets 1st, and Hamilton either DNF or finishes 6th, he's all set and crowned champion. Oh boy..... it would be a shame to have a race incident to reach that result, but it can happen. Senna vs Prost vibes.
I really really hope it doesn't happen, and while red bull has three torpedos on the grid the FIA of today is different from that of 89. Renault crashgate comes to mind with Briatore receiving a lifetime ban. Horner might be ready for retirement anyway, go out with a trophy and a lifetime ban, but I can't imagine fia going lighter then they did in 2008 against the red bull org.
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Old 11-27-2021, 01:21 AM   #2866
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Even for a street circuit this looks massively boring, even for qualy. The whole track is basically just two long straights with a slight bend and a hairpin at either end. I hope I'm wrong but it looks like another easy win for Merc #blessed

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I really really hope it doesn't happen, and while red bull has three torpedos on the grid the FIA of today is different from that of 89. Renault crashgate comes to mind with Briatore receiving a lifetime ban. Horner might be ready for retirement anyway, go out with a trophy and a lifetime ban, but I can't imagine fia going lighter then they did in 2008 against the red bull org.
Well, given the lack of runoff areas, all it would take is one time where someone doesn't yield when battling, which happens often anyway on street tracks. It would be virtually impossible to prove that it was done specifically to interfere with the championship even if that was the intention.
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Old 11-27-2021, 01:19 PM   #2867
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I think a crash is the only way Max wins this year.
Hamilton is 110% hammer time, enjoy the goat while it lasts.
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Old 11-28-2021, 09:59 AM   #2868
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F1 looses another great:


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...lIhFoPhtv.html
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Old 12-03-2021, 10:00 AM   #2869
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The onboards from Jeddah look intense. I wonder how overtaking is going to play out.
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Old 12-03-2021, 10:23 AM   #2870
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The onboards from Jeddah look intense. I wonder how overtaking is going to play out.

Very fast track from what I see. Very little room for runoff areas. It might come down to quali grid and overall race strategy.
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