Low and flush but close to stock feel, advice?

[Norinradd]

Im sure ill get feces thrown at me again by all these groggling trolls.

I just like the look of no wheel gap and wheels flush to fender.

Id like to keep the car as close to stock feeling as i can. As i enjoy it now, I enjoy drifting corners with trac off and i also enjoy hugging corners with the nannies on. I dont want super extreme grip, i do enjoy a tighter steering though, as go karty as one can get.

So any advice on what i should do? Im planning on buying a set of coilovers and wanting 18" rim. How different would 18x9s 35mm offset and coilovers feel, with tires similar or the same as stock. No super sport mega grips.

[Ultramaroon]

If you want stock feel, stay with the stock coilovers. Throw on a set of RCE yellows and call it a day.

[gramicci101]

RCE yellows won't get you very low, if that's what you're looking for. They do ride very nicely though. When you're going low you'll want a firmer suspension anyways. If it's just as compliant as stock you run the risk of bottoming out and causing damage.

There are tradeoffs to everything. I've not found a coilover yet that has a spring rate as soft as the OEM springs, so any coilover you get will be firmer than OEM. That isn't necessarily bad; OEM is kind of wobbly and mismatched. By the reviews, Bilstein's progressive spring rate coilovers (B14, B16) ride very well on the street without being overly firm or harsh.

If you want to keep the low-traction fun of the OEM tires, don't get 18x9's. Get an 18x8+35, and then get a 215/40 or 225/40 of some decent all-season like the Continental DWS. The OEM tires are expensive. A DWS will be a nice blend of comfort, traction, and lack of traction when you want it. Again, there are tradeoffs. The shorter sidewall of the 18" tire will ride more harshly than the exact same tire in a 17" size. The DWS has a sort of soft sidewall, so it's not like you're going to an MPSS or BFG Rival. It'll be firmer than stock though.

[swarb]

Compromise.

[Norinradd]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

RCE yellows won't get you very low, if that's what you're looking for. They do ride very nicely though. When you're going low you'll want a firmer suspension anyways. If it's just as compliant as stock you run the risk of bottoming out and causing damage.

There are tradeoffs to everything. I've not found a coilover yet that has a spring rate as soft as the OEM springs, so any coilover you get will be firmer than OEM. That isn't necessarily bad; OEM is kind of wobbly and mismatched. By the reviews, Bilstein's progressive spring rate coilovers (B14, B16) ride very well on the street without being overly firm or harsh.

If you want to keep the low-traction fun of the OEM tires, don't get 18x9's. Get an 18x8+35, and then get a 215/40 or 225/40 of some decent all-season like the Continental DWS. The OEM tires are expensive. A DWS will be a nice blend of comfort, traction, and lack of traction when you want it. Again, there are tradeoffs. The shorter sidewall of the 18" tire will ride more harshly than the exact same tire in a 17" size. The DWS has a sort of soft sidewall, so it's not like you're going to an MPSS or BFG Rival. It'll be firmer than stock though.

Thanks for reply!! Well my car is very easy to get the back end out now with the stage 2 upgrades. so how much would a set of coilovers, less sidewall and wider wheels really change that? Its not like the car wouldnt be fun anymore would it?

Also wouldnt Stiffer suspension make it easier to get into drifts? The car already feels stiff stock to me :p and im used to huge jeeps.

i was going to buy a set of stance coilovers and probably some 18x8 or 18x9s with 35mm offset.

Also how low do these yellows go. Is it like a 1" drop?

[Captain Snooze]

As @swarb and I say everything's a compromise.

a/ You don't have a lot of wheel travel to begin with.
b/ If you want decent (what ever decent means to you) ride with lowered car (read even less travel) you will need to pay for quality damping to control the stiffer springs. If you don't fit stiffer springs you will be hitting the bump stops which hurts ride.

[Captain Snooze]

You also need to give a budget.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

Also wouldnt Stiffer suspension make it easier to get into drifts?

Not necessarily. It depends on the f/r roll stiffness.

[Norinradd]

I have always debated the trd coils. Is anyone familiar? They kinda sound like theyre for me. I like the height they sit at and from what ive read they either keep the frs feeling stock. With the spring rate being softer up front like oem frs. Or they make it even more tail happy.

I dont like the idea equal fromt and rear spring rate of the yellows.



Well my budget is as cheap as i can get parts for. I work in automotive parts industry. I can get a set of stance coils brand new for 950$ canadian. Thats like 700 us. I just dpnt know if its over kill. I plan to track the car. Budget isnt really an issue but ive never been one to buy the most expensive stuff just because its the most expensive lol. I would never spend 3000$ on a set of gram lites. Even if i had a million dollars. Just out of principle. Those upper echelon companies can stop being greedy pigs. I usually buy used for parts. Someone can use it for 5k and ill gladly buy for 75% of the oroginal cost.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

I dont like the idea equal fromt and rear spring rate of the yellows. [1]

Well my budget is as cheap as i can get parts for. I work in automotive parts industry. I can get a set of stance coils brand new for 950$ canadian. Thats like 700 us. I just dpnt know if its over kill. I plan to track the car. Budget isnt really an issue but ive never been one to buy the most expensive stuff just because its the most expensive lol.[2] I would never spend 3000$ on a set of gram lites. Even if i had a million dollars. Just out of principle. Those upper echelon companies can stop being greedy pigs [3].

1/ Why not? The FRS/BRZ has MacPherson strut up front and multi link at the rear. So the effective spring rate is not what you see on the springs. On our cars it is something like 0.9 times the spring rate at the front and approx 0.6 times at the rear. If you increase the spring rate by equal amounts front and rear you do not get an equal amount increase at the wheels.

2/ Over kill? Tein Zs have a good reputation on this forum. Stance do not.

3/ You get what you pay for. Quality costs.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

I have always debated the trd coils. Is anyone familiar? They kinda sound like theyre for me. I like the height they sit at and from what ive read they either keep the frs feeling stock. With the spring rate being softer up front like oem frs. Or they make it even more tail happy.

I dont like the idea equal fromt and rear spring rate of the yellows.



Well my budget is as cheap as i can get parts for. I work in automotive parts industry. I can get a set of stance coils brand new for 950$ canadian. Thats like 700 us. I just dpnt know if its over kill. I plan to track the car. Budget isnt really an issue but ive never been one to buy the most expensive stuff just because its the most expensive lol. I would never spend 3000$ on a set of gram lites. Even if i had a million dollars. Just out of principle. Those upper echelon companies can stop being greedy pigs. I usually buy used for parts. Someone can use it for 5k and ill gladly buy for 75% of the oroginal cost.

What stance coils can you get for $950? The suspension gurus here can tell you if they are any good. Be careful with cheap suspension components since they are very often a classic case of you get what you pay for. The big name players are expensive for more reasons than just the name.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Norinradd

Thanks for reply!! Well my car is very easy to get the back end out now with the stage 2 upgrades. so how much would a set of coilovers, less sidewall and wider wheels really change that? Its not like the car wouldnt be fun anymore would it?

Also wouldnt Stiffer suspension make it easier to get into drifts? The car already feels stiff stock to me :p and im used to huge jeeps.

i was going to buy a set of stance coilovers and probably some 18x8 or 18x9s with 35mm offset.

Also how low do these yellows go. Is it like a 1" drop?

I can get the rear end out with OEM power on OEM size MPSS tires. In low power cars technique is more useful than oomph for breaking the rear end loose. Wider tires would be the main drawback towards getting the rear end out, so if that's your goal, stay with 215 or 225 tires.

You need to identify your goal. If you want to make a drift car, that's great. This car is good for drifting. There are a lot of compromises for daily driving though. Drift cars will have extremely stiff suspensions with minimal travel, lots of front camber, little rear camber, and a lot of toe out. Which makes for a very uncomfortable and unstable daily driver with a lot of snap oversteer.

I would only buy stance or bc extreme lows if I was looking to stance or hellaflush my car. Those goals have their own tradeoffs with ground clearance and ride quality. For daily driving, I'd stick with Bilstein B14, RCE T0, ST, KW, or Tein Flex Z, with Ohlins RT at the top dollar end. None of these will go as low as Stance or BC Extreme Low, and all of them will ride better. If I was still unhappy with the height, a lip kit would fill the gap and make the car look lower without sacrificing ride quality.

RCE yellows lower by 0.7". Eibach Pro, Swift, and Hotchkis lower 1". Eibach Sportline lowers 1.4". Lowering 1.4" on the OEM struts risks blowing the struts, so Bilstein makes shorter struts. They're firmer than the OEM struts though, and by the time you factor in the cost of struts, you're at the cost of coilovers anyways. Your car won't be any less fun with more traction and better suspension. If anything, it'll be more fun. It just might not be as tail-happy at low speeds.

[Venom1506]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

then get a 215/40 or 225/40 of some decent all-season like the Continental DWS.

Nope Nope Nope.

I accidentally got the DWS's instead of the DW's and made the mistake of keeping them because figured they would be good for going up to Big Bear this season.

These tires are insanely soft, the sidewalls feel like play-doh. Any kind of "spirited" braking with the wheels even slightly turned and the sidewalls fold over and you instantly under-steer with ABS going nuts at the same time.

On top of not being able to drive hard they also make the car incredibly bumpy. Slammed on 12k spring rates bumpy.

[Norinradd]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

1/ Why not? The FRS/BRZ has MacPherson strut up front and multi link at the rear. So the effective spring rate is not what you see on the springs. On our cars it is something like 0.9 times the spring rate at the front and approx 0.6 times at the rear. If you increase the spring rate by equal amounts front and rear you do not get an equal amount increase at the wheels.

2/ Over kill? Tein Zs have a good reputation on this forum. Stance do not.

3/ You get what you pay for. Quality costs.

Ive read lots of good things about both. It seems many drifters like stance. Autocrossers like tein zs. I assume theyre both top quality.

With the influence .6 and .9 times spring rates would that mean the trd coils. Being softer upfront and stiffer in the rear would make the car even more tail happy!?

I understand pricepoint, quality of goods and worksmanship. I just think some companies care alot more bout profit than others do. Spend thousands on marketing to justify the high price.