Handling saved me from a crash

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by geezerbrzeezer

Let's see now, 6 sticks over twenty-nine years and half a million km's, ranging from a '79 Z28 to a 98 Dakota Sport 4x4. And now a 2016 BRZ.

I'm not sure I understand how the MT in the twins provides 'more control' than the AT in manual mode - I'm honestly not arguing - I just want to understand your point. Please educate me.

A 'more pleasurable propostion'? You mean like you get to keep one hand on the wheel vs me optionally keeping two? And you've got to shove in a third pedal to orchestrate a shift, whereas I merely tap a paddle, F1 style? And you, not you you of course, could accidentally mis-shift, whereas I pretty much can't?

Having enjoyed this BRZ for three months, I can honestly say that the only reason my six MT's were sticks is because AT paddles were not optional on any of my past rides.

I get the 'purist' sentiment, but I would nowadays no sooner want to push in a third pedal to enable a shift, than I would want to use a hand crank (vs a button) to start my car.

Engagement? Hell, why not take it a step further - cut a hole in your floor and use Fred Flintstone brakes (great road feel guaranteed).

disclaimer: the above was written tongue in cheek, except for the parts that weren't

One simple answer: You cant heel-toe a AT to minimize the jolt to the drivetrain.


On the track there is a corner that I am at the limits of cohesion and I have to execute a downshift in the middle of the corner. I am certain that if I did NOT have a MT I would not be able to maintain that speed or the downshift would upset the car.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by mdm

Because you are repeatedly ignoring both my argument why such confusion is LESS likely with using one foot for each pedal than when right foot is used for both pedals, as well as links to articles stating that there is no evidence that left-foot-brakers make such mistakes ore often, I see no point in further discussion.

You are not the first person I met on the Internet who thinks that their unfounded opinion beats everything else, and I know that those people wouldn't be convinced even by a formal and strictly conducted scientific study.

Look.
Another example: I am also a lifetime Gymnastics coach.
We teach our kids that there are just certain THINGS that YOU DO NOT DO, because it is a BAD IDEA.
CAN certain students do the trick A COUPLE OF TIMES? Sure, but statistics has TAUGHT US that IF you do it enough times you WILL eventually fuck up and break your neck.


Do whatever you want, but there are people that have driven a million miles in their lifetimes or actual DRIVING INSTRUCTORS that have told you it is a bad idea and that EVENTUALLY it will bite you in the ass.

[mdm]

Let me quote my earlier post, with added emphasis.

I see no point in further discussion.

Unless, of course, you address the points I made earlier, or say something new and convincing.

Argument from authority of a driver ed instructor is neither.

[86kahl]

Originally Posted by mdm

Let me quote my earlier post, with added emphasis.



I see no point in further discussion.

So why do I keep seeing this "use both feet in AT cuz racekor" argument derailing threads? It's becoming the next "MT vs. AT?"

[JD001]

Let's get back on to the subject, car handling when swerving at high speed to avoid obstacles.
[ame]http://youtu.be/LcM9hkWrImU[/ame]

[FingerDiddle]

If you're silly enough to drive AT with both feet please don't ever drive on the same road as me, my wife and daughter don't need to die for your stupidity.

[geezerbrzeezer]

Originally Posted by justatroll

On the track there is a corner that I am at the limits of cohesion and I have to execute a downshift in the middle of the corner. I am certain that if I did NOT have a MT I would not be able to maintain that speed or the downshift would upset the car.

From Road & Track (an opinion echoed by many others):

Say what you will, but the fastest and the most consistent way to swap gears is with a paddle-shift manual transmission. Period. Just as with anti-lock brakes, no human foot can cycle the brakes as quickly as a computer to slow down the car.

If the singular goal is to get around the track as fast as possible, then the transmission should be mechanized. No human can match a machine's consistency and accuracy. The advantages of paddle shift not only proved themselves in our autocross test, you can see the evidence in any top-rung racing series where mechanized transmissions have become the norm.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by geezerbrzeezer

From Road & Track (an opinion echoed by many others):

Say what you will, but the fastest and the most consistent way to swap gears is with a paddle-shift manual transmission. Period. Just as with anti-lock brakes, no human foot can cycle the brakes as quickly as a computer to slow down the car.

If the singular goal is to get around the track as fast as possible, then the transmission should be mechanized. No human can match a machine's consistency and accuracy. The advantages of paddle shift not only proved themselves in our autocross test, you can see the evidence in any top-rung racing series where mechanized transmissions have become the norm.

In my example it is not about quickness of the shift, but actually the opposite.


In EVERY AT car I have ever driven (with or without paddle shifters) there is always a noticeable "jerk" when the shift occurs.
Watch this week's episode of 'Jay Lenno's garage' and watch the part about the Koenigsegg to see exactly what I mean.


When I heel-toe in this particular corner (with MT) I feel absolutely no jerk when done properly.
There have even been times when I complete the shift and think I missed the shift because it felt TOO smooth.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by 86kahl

So why do I keep seeing this "use both feet in AT cuz racekor" argument derailing threads?

I don't know. Ask @Boomerang who injected the issue into this thread.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by FingerDiddle

If you're silly enough to drive AT with both feet please don't ever drive on the same road as me, my wife and daughter don't need to die for your stupidity.

Yawn.

Also, your only danger is that my reaction time when braking will be likely much faster than yours, so don't tailgate and you'll be fine.

[acro]

Originally Posted by justatroll

One simple answer: You cant heel-toe a AT to minimize the jolt to the drivetrain.


On the track there is a corner that I am at the limits of cohesion and I have to execute a downshift in the middle of the corner. I am certain that if I did NOT have a MT I would not be able to maintain that speed or the downshift would upset the car.

I have the manual car and love it wouldn't change it for the world. I also track mine as much as I can.

The AT in the FRS will revmatch on downshift and does so without and drama and will never make a mistake.

I'll just say it as it is I love the manual for the involvement and the launch from a standstill but on a track I suspect there is nothing between the two.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[nova.86]

The manual is actually slightly faster than the automatic in 0-60 times, it's shown on paper for the FRS/BRZ. I'm sure for more expensive cars like Porsches, the computers are well more designed and will be faster than manuals for 0-60s.

[JD001]

Remember ATs are not all born equal. Supercars and megacars have very special transmissions that take the best from both worlds (AT and MT) to deliver a very optimised system and they can't be compared to the general slush boxes that are tweaked through paddle shifts. Another point to note the new 911R is near identical to the GT3RS but for one fact and I'll let you guess what that is...

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by JD001

Remember ATs are not all born equal. Supercars and megacars have very special transmissions that take the best from both worlds (AT and MT) to deliver a very optimised system and they can't be compared to the general slush boxes that are tweaked through paddle shifts. Another point to note the new 911R is near identical to the GT3RS but for one fact and I'll let you guess what that is...

Tada wrote a long time ago that all the sports car bosses from around the world would meet up for dinner every now and then. So I'm not surprised that the different brands are copying each other in terms of strategy at times (look at Porsche in recent years rehashing old ideas like 4 wheel steering, 9000rpm redline, back to basics package, manual transmission, etc).

Trust me I would not own another DSG car ever again, the long term reliability issues far outweigh its fast shifting speeds, and the party trick gets dull after a while.

Toyota probably saw thru a lot of these BS from the very beginning to not invest money into tech like Diesel Hybrid or DSG.