(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I hear what you are saying but none of that is "reliability" in my book. That's usability. The two are not the same.

Very true but that's unfortunately what affects these ratings.
Nobody in the general public is really interested in which car is more problem free past 200k, they just need to justify their next lease.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

That's cause Buicks (late Saturns before that) are Opels, designed in Europe daily for Europe. Then GM swaps the badges.

True for their sedans, but Buick's sales are like 80% SUVs/CUVs...which are almost identical (platform and powertrain) to Chevys and GMCs.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

True for their sedans, but Buick's sales are like 80% SUVs/CUVs...which are almost identical (platform and powertrain) to Chevys and GMCs.

True, the Encore is Buick's best seller by a country mile, as they sell literally as many of them than all other models combined. But the Encore is the North American version of the Opel Mokka, engineered by a very german design team.

The Envision does share a platform with the current terrain and equinox, but they're based on the much older 2006 Captiva, coengineerd by Daewoo and Holden.

The Enclave is truly on a Chevy/GMC/Cadillac version of the epsilon platform.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Fixed, it really was a 50-50 effort:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5274

The engine is Subaru's basic new engine architecture, but it was a clean sheet design for the Twins that Toyota actively participated in the development of, bringing Toyota tech into it (eg. the head design and injection system). The newer Subaru engines are based on the Twin's motor, not the other way around.

There, I fixed that for you.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

There, I fixed that for you.

Yea I should have been more clear. Generally when I say 86 I mean all of them lol.
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by phm14

I owned a ND... My NC was low miles

So was it an ND or an NC?

I had to chase down a dropped cylinder

Fortunately the twins have never had any issues or recalls...

All cars experience mechanical failures, recalls etc. ND engines do not seem to be any worse than the FA20 in general, if there was a weak point it was the 6 speed manual gearbox.

Mazda is at # 12 on our 2018 chart above

That chart is subjective, unreliable and unbelievable (I very much doubt that 86s are objectively more reliable than Camrys or Corollas if you objectively equalised for millions of miles driven). It is also USA specific. In the US many Mazdas are made in Mexico, are they not? In Australia most of our Mazdas are made in Japan, and all MX-5s certainly are. Mazda has very high reliability ratings here in Australia. But in any case, they come with a 5 year unlimited km warranty here, same as Toyota and Subaru, so meh. If it breaks under warranty, Mazda will have to fix it.

Oh, and the MX5 doesn't have the luggage capacity to take a female passenger on a overnight trip.

Sure it does, unless you pack like the Trumps! Pack light.

Of course the twins have more luggage space, but I don’t need much TBH. The RF will be fine for what I need (commuting, quick grocery runs, weekend fangs in the twisties). If I need more space, I’ll borrow my partner’s hatchback. Bear in mind, I’ve gone periods where I didn’t even own a car, just a motorbike, and the MX-5 is a luxury of storage and space compared to a Ninja.

I don’t rate sportscars on luggage capacity. Does it make sense to argue a hatchback or SUV is a better sportscar then a twin because the twin has less luggage space? No? So it’s equally irrelevant that the twin has a bit more than the MX-5.

I have tracked both cars, and find the the 86 a far better track toy...

I don’t plan on tracking it, but in any case, MX-5s have a very good rep as track cars, and their aftermarket support is second to none, even to the twins. If I was going to track it, I’d mod as needed to address shortcomings. So again, not an issue.

Other than all that, the Miata is good car, especially if your looking for a disposable $5-6K track toy

That’s not at all what I’m looking for. I want a good looking (I love the RF’s styling, prefer it to the twins), tiny, reliable, fun handling, free revving sportscar with a nice interior for commuting, weekend drives and occassional road trips. I love the idea of having the flexibility to drop the roof on a nice day, or put it up and still have hardtop security (albeit not structurally). And I want it new, with a factory 5 year warranty and no-one else’s farts built up in the seat.

So yeah, you and I are looking for different things, have different priorities in a sportscar. Is it so hard to understand that the car you subjectively feel is perfect for you, is not necessarily perfect for everyone else?

in that case, I'd build the motor in a cheap, high mileage/lunched/or lightly damaged 86 for that purpose.

I already had an 86 for 5 years. Now I want something new and different. Is that hard to understand? Apparently so.

But hey, if you're curious

Indeed I shall!

[WolfpackS2k]

Thanks Yoshi!

[HuntingtonFRS]

Originally Posted by Red-86

So was it an ND or an NC?



Fortunately the twins have never had any issues or recalls...

All cars experience mechanical failures, recalls etc. ND engines do not seem to be any worse than the FA20 in general, if there was a weak point it was the 6 speed manual gearbox.



That chart is subjective, unreliable and unbelievable (I very much doubt that 86s are objectively more reliable than Camrys or Corollas if you objectively equalised for millions of miles driven). It is also USA specific. In the US many Mazdas are made in Mexico, are they not? In Australia most of our Mazdas are made in Japan, and all MX-5s certainly are. Mazda has very high reliability ratings here in Australia. But in any case, they come with a 5 year unlimited km warranty here, same as Toyota and Subaru, so meh. If it breaks under warranty, Mazda will have to fix it.



Sure it does, unless you pack like the Trumps! Pack light.

Of course the twins have more luggage space, but I don’t need much TBH. The RF will be fine for what I need (commuting, quick grocery runs, weekend fangs in the twisties). If I need more space, I’ll borrow my partner’s hatchback. Bear in mind, I’ve gone periods where I didn’t even own a car, just a motorbike, and the MX-5 is a luxury of storage and space compared to a Ninja.

I don’t rate sportscars on luggage capacity. Does it make sense to argue a hatchback or SUV is a better sportscar then a twin because the twin has less luggage space? No? So it’s equally irrelevant that the twin has a bit more than the MX-5.



I don’t plan on tracking it, but in any case, MX-5s have a very good rep as track cars, and their aftermarket support is second to none, even to the twins. If I was going to track it, I’d mod as needed to address shortcomings. So again, not an issue.



That’s not at all what I’m looking for. I want a good looking (I love the RF’s styling, prefer it to the twins), tiny, reliable, fun handling, free revving sportscar with a nice interior for commuting, weekend drives and occassional road trips. I love the idea of having the flexibility to drop the roof on a nice day, or put it up and still have hardtop security (albeit not structurally). And I want it new, with a factory 5 year warranty and no-one else’s farts built up in the seat.

So yeah, you and I are looking for different things, have different priorities in a sportscar. Is it so hard to understand that the car you subjectively feel is perfect for you, is not necessarily perfect for everyone else?



I already had an 86 for 5 years. Now I want something new and different. Is that hard to understand? Apparently so.



Indeed I shall!

I’ve been driving a 2017 Miata RF since Nov. 2018. I’ve fallen more in love over time, but for the first 6 months I was missing the space of the 86. It’s a little hard to say right now what I would prefer because my old 86 had an HKS supercharger and few minor mods beyond that. It certainly had more room and I really loved that car. I had it about 5 years (only first owner) and spent a lot of time messing around on it so I was a bit connected to it. I sold it and bought a used Focus ST and then got rid of that after about 8 months. (FWD sucks) I got the Miata for a great price and it was still on the showroom floor (first owner again). Sometimes I miss the 86 but then remember that it would probably end up having that recall and the aftermath of that scares me.

Performance between the two (without the supercharger on the 86) I would put the Miata on top, hands down. It lacks space (obviously) but it’s much more uncomfortable for the passenger since there’s a hump in the floor for the transmission. Add the Bose system and now they have a subwoofer under their feet. Long trip? Forget about laying the seat back to nap (passenger obviously). But road and track? Miata for sure. It’s constantly the winner on comparison videos too.

All that being said, if this GR86 ever comes out I’ll probably be getting that.


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[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by phm14

I owned a ND Miata, and would not go back to a MX5 from the 86 (just bought my 2nd, a Hakone: nicer interior box checked). I don't think there is much difference in engine sound (w equal length header). My NC was low miles, and I had to chase down a dropped cylinder to a shorting injector wire (IIRC, ~ the same gauge as 6 human hairs). Mazda is at # 12 on our 2018 chart above, falling 6 points in 2 years. Oh, and the MX5 doesn't have the luggage capacity to take a female passenger on a overnight trip. I have tracked both cars, and find the the 86 a far better track toy...no puking coolant after a session, handling, CG, etc. Other than all that, the Miata is good car, especially if your looking for a disposable $5-6K track toy, but in that case, I'd build the motor in a cheap, high mileage/lunched/or lightly damaged 86 for that purpose. But hey, if you're curious

Fwiw Mazda was 3rd in reliability in 2019 according to consumer reports (behind lexus/Toyota)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...es/2578463001/

I really like the ND, it's just not as practical as the 86. I love Mazda as a company though so our second car is a cx9 signature. Sister also owns a cx9 sig, mom owns a cx5 gt, dad in law has a Mazda 6 gt with the turbo 2.5. All have been very reliable with the only issues being dumb infotainment type issues.

Also, as stated the reliability ratings of consumer reports are heavily affected by minor nuances like infotainment and things like that. It depends on people reporting issues. I would wager that Toyota 86 and BRZ owners are more likely to not give a shit about minor quirks and noises, thus boosting reliability rating.

[Red-86]

Meanwhile, no real news on the GR86.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Meanwhile, no real news on the GR86.

I heard from a very reliable source that upon release, it will roll on surfaces intended for motor vehicle travel, and will be centered around assisting occupant relocation as designated by the occupant!

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Red-86

So was it an ND or an NC?



Fortunately the twins have never had any issues or recalls...

All cars experience mechanical failures, recalls etc. ND engines do not seem to be any worse than the FA20 in general, if there was a weak point it was the 6 speed manual gearbox.



That chart is subjective, unreliable and unbelievable (I very much doubt that 86s are objectively more reliable than Camrys or Corollas if you objectively equalised for millions of miles driven). It is also USA specific. In the US many Mazdas are made in Mexico, are they not? In Australia most of our Mazdas are made in Japan, and all MX-5s certainly are. Mazda has very high reliability ratings here in Australia. But in any case, they come with a 5 year unlimited km warranty here, same as Toyota and Subaru, so meh. If it breaks under warranty, Mazda will have to fix it.



Sure it does, unless you pack like the Trumps! Pack light.

Of course the twins have more luggage space, but I don’t need much TBH. The RF will be fine for what I need (commuting, quick grocery runs, weekend fangs in the twisties). If I need more space, I’ll borrow my partner’s hatchback. Bear in mind, I’ve gone periods where I didn’t even own a car, just a motorbike, and the MX-5 is a luxury of storage and space compared to a Ninja.

I don’t rate sportscars on luggage capacity. Does it make sense to argue a hatchback or SUV is a better sportscar then a twin because the twin has less luggage space? No? So it’s equally irrelevant that the twin has a bit more than the MX-5.



I don’t plan on tracking it, but in any case, MX-5s have a very good rep as track cars, and their aftermarket support is second to none, even to the twins. If I was going to track it, I’d mod as needed to address shortcomings. So again, not an issue.



That’s not at all what I’m looking for. I want a good looking (I love the RF’s styling, prefer it to the twins), tiny, reliable, fun handling, free revving sportscar with a nice interior for commuting, weekend drives and occassional road trips. I love the idea of having the flexibility to drop the roof on a nice day, or put it up and still have hardtop security (albeit not structurally). And I want it new, with a factory 5 year warranty and no-one else’s farts built up in the seat.

So yeah, you and I are looking for different things, have different priorities in a sportscar. Is it so hard to understand that the car you subjectively feel is perfect for you, is not necessarily perfect for everyone else?



I already had an 86 for 5 years. Now I want something new and different. Is that hard to understand? Apparently so.



Indeed I shall!

Just giving my take as a former Miata owner. Sorry you didn't find it helpful, maybe someone else will. At least you can squeeze two good sized purses in the trunk.

[Kiske]

The 86 and BRZ model cars that made the reliabilty list should be unmodified examples. That removes a large portion of cars from the data, no? That plus fewer on the road would explain why they marked high.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by rsingh

Didn’t see this mentioned on this forum? From October photos of a new brz being tested, looks like they are going to use the current platform? good thing they are comparing it with the alpine a110

https://www.motor1.com/news/385041/s...elift-special/

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is just a special edition or facelift of the current gen so of course it is on the same platform.

club4ag says they are ending production of the 86 this month. if true, a test mule wouldn't be totally out of the question.

https://club4ag.com/farewell-to-the-...l-as-lexus-gs/

FAREWELL TO THE GENERATION 1 TOYOTA 86, AND SUBARU BRZ, AS WELL AS LEXUS GS.

Toyota announced that the Lexus GS will end production soon in August, and Subaru will produce the last 1st generation Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ in July, May for European markets. Last batches of the 86 and BRZ are already on the boats for some counties as we read this.

We will see two driving enthusiast's machines from Toyota end production.
They will go out silently, while the attention for most people are towards much more critical issue of how to stay under a roof and put food on the table, in the madness of Coronavirus pandemic and economic halt.

I would like to wave them good bye, with the deepest of respect to all of those who designed and toiled to get the car to market, and pushed for their sales all over the world.

The two final editions are graced with black painted farewell models it seems. Toyota 86 Black Limited, and Lexus GS Eternal Touring Edition.