Twin Turbo kit?

[enjoi23]

I don't know much about turbos, but could this car take a twin turbo kit? And is anyone developing it if it can? I know there is allot of space under the hood so..

[Brody602]

Originally Posted by enjoi23

I don't know much about turbos, but could this car take a twin turbo kit? And is anyone developing it if it can? I know there is allot of space under the hood so..

As of right now, I don't think anyone is devlopping a twin turbo set up.

It's just not a good idea to even bother putting a twin turbo on a 4 cylinder engine, because it doesn't produce much exhaust gases to spool the turbo as opposed to a v6 or v8, and there is a lot more fabrication and set-up and what not involved witha twin turbo set up, you'd honestly get better results from 1 properly sized turbo on a 4 cylinder.

The best bet for a twin set up in this case would be twin charged which refers to a supercharger AND turbocharger, because it compensates for the cons of each, generally speaking.

I.e. superchargera generally have more increase from low to mid rpm while a turbo has turbo lag and doesnt really start to kick in until low-mid, mid range rpms depending on the setup,

Combining both would generally give you a nice linear hp/tq gain on a dyno.

There is someone who has twin charged this car, and im not sure if they're making a kit or not, but i'm sure if you try to look it up you should find results.

Edit: Found a couple links on the twin charged FR-S

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6349

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9993

Brody

[enjoi23]

Thanks buddy! Well I guess I'll be going with regular turbo when I do want forced induction then..

[Brody602]

Originally Posted by enjoi23

Thanks buddy! Well I guess I'll be going with regular turbo when I do want forced induction then..

If you plan on using your FR-S/BRZ as a daily driver and to retain reliability, and get a good quality kit with lots of research and development, I'd recomend the AVO kit, its only 3800$ USD!

If it's WHP gains are in your margin, it has nearly a 100whp gain is plenty IMO, considering some people question the car already having enough power at 150-160whp stock. The avo kit also uses a fairly small turbo specifically designed for this application to minimize turbo lag/spool time, although the turbo itself is still capable of quite a bit more horsepower then it delivers incase you'd want more performance.

With a kit like AVO's you're only running 5-6 psi of boost, so theres no need to upgrade engine internals, while the gains are quite nice. It also comes with a base tune for 91 octane, and will also come with 200+ pic installation guide.

One of their main goals is to retain reliability for a daily driver.


Cheers

[enjoi23]

Originally Posted by Brody602

If you plan on using your FR-S/BRZ as a daily driver and to retain reliability, and get a good quality kit with lots of research and development, I'd recomend the AVO kit, its only 3800$ USD!

If it's WHP gains are in your margin, it has nearly a 100whp gain is plenty IMO, considering some people question the car already having enough power at 150-160whp stock. The avo kit also uses a fairly small turbo specifically designed for this application to minimize turbo lag/spool time, although the turbo itself is still capable of quite a bit more horsepower then it delivers incase you'd want more performance.

With a kit like AVO's you're only running 5-6 psi of boost, so theres no need to upgrade engine internals, while the gains are quite nice. It also comes with a base tune for 91 octane, and will also come with 200+ pic installation guide.

One of their main goals is to retain reliability for a daily driver.


Cheers

I'm not going to go power hungry with this car. It is mainly used as a DD to school,work,etc. I may track every now and then.. I just want that extra "pep." lol. From what people are saying, this car can take psi like a champ, but I wouldn't run more than 8psi just because it is my DD. I'm just going to sit back and let all of the vendors fight each other until great turbo kits or superchargers come out. I'm in no rush to get power, I don't NEED it like some track stars. The car is amazing where it's at right now anyway.

[Brody602]

Originally Posted by enjoi23

I'm not going to go power hungry with this car. It is mainly used as a DD to school,work,etc. I may track every now and then.. I just want that extra "pep." lol. From what people are saying, this car can take psi like a champ, but I wouldn't run more than 8psi just because it is my DD. I'm just going to sit back and let all of the vendors fight each other until great turbo kits or superchargers come out. I'm in no rush to get power, I don't NEED it like some track stars. The car is amazing where it's at right now anyway.

Yeah, from what you described, the AVO kit suits your needs, although since you're in no hurry, other companies might have something competitive to offer, although for AVO's price, not too many turbo kits will come/have come close to that price. I want the FI for the same reasons as you, daily driver with just a little extra pep, but without the need to worry about engine internals etc.

Heres an interesting article about the AVO kit from when it they had their car at SEMA;

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/11/avo-brz/

P.S. I dont work for AVO, I just really like their product up to date, and IMO it's the best I've seen for the use I'd want from FI.

[sw20kosh]

Two turbos are not always better than one.

The only time they are really needed is in:

A. Sequential setup - one turbo is small, one turbo is big (no one does this anymore as it is quite complex)

B. V engines (V6, V8, V10, V12) - since the exhaust ports are on opposite sides of the engine it makes sense to place two small turbos on either side of the engine to reduce the length the exhaust energy needs to travel before spinning the turbo's turbine. Also, fitment is a consideration here (ie. on an inline setup it is easier to have one turbo on the exhaust port side of the engine).

To simplify the concept - The amount of energy to spin two smaller turbos will equal the amount of energy to spin a big one. Both setups will have the same spool time and same power out put but the twin turbo setup will be far more complex in terms of fitment/piping/etc

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Two turbos are not always better than one.

The only time they are really needed is in:

A. Sequential setup - one turbo is small, one turbo is big (no one does this anymore as it is quite complex)

B. V engines (V6, V8, V10, V12) - since the exhaust ports are on opposite sides of the engine it makes sense to place two small turbos on either side of the engine to reduce the length the exhaust energy needs to travel before spinning the turbo's turbine. Also, fitment is a consideration here (ie. on an inline setup it is easier to have one turbo on the exhaust port side of the engine).

To simplify the concept - The amount of energy to spin two smaller turbos will equal the amount of energy to spin a big one. Both setups will have the same spool time and same power out put but the twin turbo setup will be far more complex in terms of fitment/piping/etc

Sequentials are usually twin smalls. ie 2JZGTE Supras.

And properly sized and installed twins will spool faster than a same power single, assuming the same tech (ball bearings, ceramic turbines, whatever...)

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Sequentials are usually twin smalls. ie 2JZGTE Supras.

And properly sized and installed twins will spool faster than a same power single, assuming the same tech (ball bearings, ceramic turbines, whatever...)

Yeas, but with twin scroll and bb turbos out there that will start boosting before 2000rpm and still deliver full boost to redline it's very hard to justify the complexity of a sequential setup.

Most multi-turbo setups I see these days are on cars that spend more time parked at a show with the hood up than getting the most out of the engine.

-Justin

[JackSmiley]

Not the thread jack, but I wonder what a compound charger would do for this car...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Yeas, but with twin scroll and bb turbos out there that will start boosting before 2000rpm and still deliver full boost to redline it's very hard to justify the complexity of a sequential setup.

Most multi-turbo setups I see these days are on cars that spend more time parked at a show with the hood up than getting the most out of the engine.

-Justin

When you look at the piping on a stock 2JZGTE it kinda makes you want to punch somebody.

I had a 1JZ with 'normal' twin turbos, factory ceramic turbines, and it spooled very nice for having the worst factory manifolds ever put on a performance motor.

Another local guy did a 1JZ with twin bb GT28Rs, made 10psi at 3000 rpm and was almost fully spooled at 20 psi by 3800 rpm. Made 500 whp at 22psi, stock cams, no head work.

But that is a more expensive setup than an equivalent single.

[JoeBoxer]

300ZX TT piping, i'll pass on a TT

[bakemono]

^^ Nice. It brings to mind the complicated FD solenoids/vacuum hoses for a sequential turbo setup.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Dimman

And properly sized and installed twins will spool faster than a same power single, assuming the same tech (ball bearings, ceramic turbines, whatever...)

I disagree. There is no magic in a twin turbo set up. Physics is physics.

Ex. 6 cylinder engine:

3 exhaust ports (50% of total) spinning each of the two turbos

vs.

6 exhaust ports (100%) spinning one turbo

Inertia of two turbines/compressor wheels = inertia of one larger turbine/compressor wheel. (assuming same target flow levels)

To reverse your logic, a properly sized single turbo will spool faster than two turbos.

I am welcome to math or physics that can prove two turbo's has an inertial advantage over one turbo. If we go with your logic, then why aren't there 6 tiny turbos on 6 cylinder engines?

It is because if one of those 6 tiny turbos flows X, a single large turbo will flow 6X. Each one of those 6 tiny turbos needs Y energy to fully spool at 3k rpms (total of 6Y energy) and the single large turbo will need 6Y energy to fully spool at 3k rpms. So all you gain with 6 tiny turbos is more complexity.

This is why manufacturers played with twin turbo's in a sequential manner. The design allowed 100% (instead of 50%) of the exhaust energy to go to one small turbo. This made spooling quick. When the rpms (thus the exhaust energy) were sufficiently high enough the exhaust flow was split with 50% of it going to each turbo. (this is if the turbo's were the same size)

I am not sure but I think there was a second design where the exhaust flow was completely switched from a small turbo over to a bigger turbo depending on rpms and engine load.