86 vs. 2013 STI - a DD perspective. - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Jar · 07-07-2013, 01:58 AM

I know there's a thread that covers this a little bit already, but it's degenerated into a bit of a mess and hasn't been updated for a couple of months.

I recently got tired of the build quality issues of my particular FR-S after 11 months of ownership and traded it in for a '13 STI last month.

Went from this:

To this:

Comparing the two is almost entirely pointless considering they are vastly different price ranges and build purpose. But from a DD perspective, I will say this:

I much prefer the FR-S.

Time in shop aside, the FR-S handled in a way I prefer, had a great driving position, had a better shifter (that is, when it wasn't fighting me on 1st and 2nd gear), and just gave me more of a rush when driving it.

The STI is a great car, it has just a ridiculous amount of power. Once you hit 3rd you are pretty much buried in your seat until you hit 3 digits. The STI is also wildy more practical for hauling people around in, which means I do get to show it off more.

But, the STI is a heavier car, it handles like a nimble sedan instead of a pure lightweight import RWD. Which isn't a knock against the STI, that's just how it was designed.

Both accomplish conveying what they were designed to do. I just happen to fancy what the 86 has to say.

2013 is possibly the last year of this generation WRX/STI, and you can really tell. Everything about the refinement and fine tuning of the vehicle just clues you in on how evolved a platform it is. No chirping fuel pump, no shifting problems, no surprise check engine lights.

The STI has known issues (oil pickup, ringland failures), but they are known issues and I don't suspect I'll end up having to explain the problem and cause to the dealership like I've had to with the FRS numerous times.

To break it down between pros and cons

FR-S Pros:

- Handles in a way I prefer.
- Uniqueness of a new platform. Turns a lot of heads.
- Looks sharp.
- After market parts are reliably better quality, buying anything for a WRX/STI requires weeding out all of the Chinese ebay shit.

- Special mention: The community.

Seriously. IWSTI and NASIOC are shitholes of the internet. Weeding through the worthless threads and posts on those terrible forums is tiring and simply not worth the effort. The staggering amount of space dedicated to advertisements is shameful on both sites, and it even commits the worst offense any site can commit, keyword popup ads in random places throughout the forum post message bodies.

FT86club is a fantastic place, if this is your first owner's club forum, then you have no idea how lucky you are.

FR-S Cons:

- Really screams for modification. I will revisit the platform, but next time I'm banking 5k or so for modifications. At least a tune and all new exhaust from the headers on back.
- Just a tad slow. I instantly identified with @Dezoris video depicting him losing to a dodge minivan at a stop light. I had a similar experience with some pickup and I kinda shook my head the rest of the drive home.
- Scion / Toyota's apparently cluelessness about issues that the platform has. I have to assume it's willful ignorance, but either way it translates into every service request being a battle with the dealership.

STI Pros:

- Fast. Goddamn is this thing fast.
- No mods required. Honestly, it really only screams for a Cobb AP with an appropriate Stage 1 tune. Maybe new exhaust, but you aren't ever fighting a torque dip or lack of power.
- Refined. No surprises in the first few thousand miles.
- Practical. I can haul my drunk friends around without having to drive the wife's CX7.

STI Cons:

- Kind of ugly. But I have to say, the kid in me still loves the hood scoop.
- ~*~Turbo lag~*~.
- WRX's are traditionally driven by Douches. I should know, I drove one for 6 years prior to the FR-S and am an incredible douche. (It's sorta a chicken and egg thing though.)
- Expensive. Keep that credit score over 800, kids!
- Online community is borderline useless. If it wasn't for the excellent gents over on the SomethingAwful AI forum, I wouldn't even bother looking up any info online.

Seriously, pick any issue about an STI you want to know about. Say, how to operate the DCCD.

For the love of christ, don't post a thread, else you will be mocked in horribly broken english for not using the search button. Which normally would be fine, except that all searches yield are other threads with no information. Instead your search will only hit threads wherein some other unfortunate soul is being flamed for not using the search button.

It's like inception, only with grammatical idiocy instead of freaky dreams.

So in Conclusion, the STI is great, the FR-S is also great. I prefer the handling of the FR-S, but I also prefer the predicable build quality of the STI. In a perfect world I would buy a FR-S and have money left over for mods, but that exposes me to warranty violations on a platform that hasn't shown me I can trust it yet.

Maybe year model 2015 will have some of my grievances sorted out. I hope so, because I do want to revisit this platform. Until then I'll just have to suffer with this turbo wagon.

EZWood · 07-07-2013, 02:38 AM

Well put, on the forum thing I came from the the tdi club.com and I thought that was an excellent forum, but you are spot on about this forum for the most part minus the brz owners looking down their noses on us frs owners. If my credit was better I would have had the first year of that generation. I love that body style. Just because you don't have an frs anymore doesn't mean you aren't welcome at the meets and events, and I look forward to seeing your sti.

Jrohit · 07-07-2013, 12:09 PM

I think you made the right choice for yourself. In the end, it's all about how the cars suit us and our lifestyle. I don't really haul many people around and love driving. It's relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other cars on the market like your STI. The mpg works out best for me with the FRS since I drive somewhat fair distances to work/school.

I hope you enjoy your STI, it's a great car which I wanted since I started getting into cars.

TylerLieberman · 07-07-2013, 01:34 PM

Keep the stock intake as the airbox is rated for 400hp and isn't prone to heatsoak like the aftermarket ones are. A drop in filter is sufficient.

Exhaust is the same way. Enough flow for nearly 400hp. Honestly, a downpipe and tune is all you need to make that thing fly. Altogether, you can get that done for like $600-$800 depending where you look. Good enough for nearly 300awhp just on those two things alone.

That wrx/sti will be available next year as a MY2014 as well. Next gen is a 2015.

I miss my old wrx. Truth be told, I'll probably end up back in an STi-which is crazy cause I was always a die hard Evo fan haha.

Good review though. I agree with pretty much everything you stated. Glad you're enjoying the new car. A couple small changes and you'll love it even more

dsrttigr · 07-07-2013, 04:54 PM

I had an 08 STi with mods. The FR-S is definitely easier to drive, but I have a work vehicle and a 2011 Ford F150 4x4 so the FR-S is not my DD. What problems did you have with it? Seems fine to me.

DarkSunrise · 07-07-2013, 05:22 PM

Congrats! I went the opposite direction. Had an 09 STI hatch. Now in an FR-S, so I know and agree with a lot of your comparison between the two. Had some good times with the STI. I actually think that stock, the STI is a bit slow for what it is (Evo competitor), but nothing a TBE + tune can't fix. Power is so easy to come by on that platform.

Enjoy the car! Don't forget to red-out those tails =)

kahox · 07-07-2013, 06:17 PM

To the OP, dont let the mod bug bite to hard! lol The power is too easy to get in those plateform. My obsession with my evo x was spending so much money on it .. got to a point with 430awhp and full Varis body kit in 2 years of ownership. I was planning to get the bottom end rebuild etc but realise I should pull myself out of it and focus on better things.

civdaddy · 07-07-2013, 10:18 PM

I know exactly what you mean about 3rd gear in those cars. It just starts hauling ass. I always take the opportunity to drive a friends when I can. Very fun car!!

Jar · 07-07-2013, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahox

To the OP, dont let the mod bug bite to hard! lol The power is too easy to get in those plateform. My obsession with my evo x was spending so much money on it .. got to a point with 430awhp and full Varis body kit in 2 years of ownership. I was planning to get the bottom end rebuild etc but realise I should pull myself out of it and focus on better things.

Yeah, I only plan on some gauges and an accessport for now. Maybe a TBE sometime in the future.

E46toFT86 · 07-07-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jar

- Kind of ugly. But I have to say, the kid in me still loves the hood scoop.
- WRX's are traditionally driven by Douches. I should know, I drove one for 6 years prior to the FR-S and am an incredible douche.

Thanks for the good laughs. Honesty @ its' finest.

thill · 07-07-2013, 11:33 PM

Depending on your mileage you drive, cost of ownership is something to consider as well. MPG is a huge difference between these cars, along with things like tires. So pro for he FT86 there.

If you live in the snowbelt like me, AWD is a pro for the WRX.

I applaud you for your honest comparison. The WRX STi styling is not for me anymore (I am 40+ years old), but they are great cars. My buddy owns a 2012 that he has modded out and the thing is a rocket.. Crazy fast...

CSG Mike · 07-08-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZWood

Well put, on the forum thing I came from the the tdi club.com and I thought that was an excellent forum, but you are spot on about this forum for the most part minus the brz owners looking down their noses on us frs owners. If my credit was better I would have had the first year of that generation. I love that body style. Just because you don't have an frs anymore doesn't mean you aren't welcome at the meets and events, and I look forward to seeing your sti.

Damn FRS owners....

Ammonia · 07-08-2013, 12:13 PM

I've driven my friend's STI, maybe "fast" is relative to the FRS but it felt really sluggish to me.

But you're 100% correct, kind of an apples to oranges comparo. I absolutely prefer coupes over four door cars, so you can see why I'm slightly biased

GL with your new endeavors. I do agree, this forum is awesome.

dsgerbc · 07-08-2013, 12:22 PM

Should've kept the FR-S too, that's what I'm doing.
With STI being your only car you'll get used to that power in a few short weeks, and then it will either start annoying you or the mod bug will become irresistable.
I plan on keeping the BRZ, and splitting driving fairly equally. That way I hope I can enjoy the handling of the BRZ more after I switch from the STI, but also enjoy STI power more when I swap back into it from a BRZ.

07-07-2013, 01:58 AM	#1
Jar Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: 2014 SWP BRZ Limited Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 219 Thanks: 143 Thanked 142 Times in 79 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	86 vs. 2013 STI - a DD perspective. I know there's a thread that covers this a little bit already, but it's degenerated into a bit of a mess and hasn't been updated for a couple of months. I recently got tired of the build quality issues of my particular FR-S after 11 months of ownership and traded it in for a '13 STI last month. Went from this: To this: Comparing the two is almost entirely pointless considering they are vastly different price ranges and build purpose. But from a DD perspective, I will say this: I much prefer the FR-S. Time in shop aside, the FR-S handled in a way I prefer, had a great driving position, had a better shifter (that is, when it wasn't fighting me on 1st and 2nd gear), and just gave me more of a rush when driving it. The STI is a great car, it has just a ridiculous amount of power. Once you hit 3rd you are pretty much buried in your seat until you hit 3 digits. The STI is also wildy more practical for hauling people around in, which means I do get to show it off more. But, the STI is a heavier car, it handles like a nimble sedan instead of a pure lightweight import RWD. Which isn't a knock against the STI, that's just how it was designed. Both accomplish conveying what they were designed to do. I just happen to fancy what the 86 has to say. 2013 is possibly the last year of this generation WRX/STI, and you can really tell. Everything about the refinement and fine tuning of the vehicle just clues you in on how evolved a platform it is. No chirping fuel pump, no shifting problems, no surprise check engine lights. The STI has known issues (oil pickup, ringland failures), but they are known issues and I don't suspect I'll end up having to explain the problem and cause to the dealership like I've had to with the FRS numerous times. To break it down between pros and cons FR-S Pros: - Handles in a way I prefer. - Uniqueness of a new platform. Turns a lot of heads. - Looks sharp. - After market parts are reliably better quality, buying anything for a WRX/STI requires weeding out all of the Chinese ebay shit. - Special mention: The community. Seriously. IWSTI and NASIOC are shitholes of the internet. Weeding through the worthless threads and posts on those terrible forums is tiring and simply not worth the effort. The staggering amount of space dedicated to advertisements is shameful on both sites, and it even commits the worst offense any site can commit, keyword popup ads in random places throughout the forum post message bodies. FT86club is a fantastic place, if this is your first owner's club forum, then you have no idea how lucky you are. FR-S Cons: - Really screams for modification. I will revisit the platform, but next time I'm banking 5k or so for modifications. At least a tune and all new exhaust from the headers on back. - Just a tad slow. I instantly identified with @Dezoris video depicting him losing to a dodge minivan at a stop light. I had a similar experience with some pickup and I kinda shook my head the rest of the drive home. - Scion / Toyota's apparently cluelessness about issues that the platform has. I have to assume it's willful ignorance, but either way it translates into every service request being a battle with the dealership. STI Pros: - Fast. Goddamn is this thing fast. - No mods required. Honestly, it really only screams for a Cobb AP with an appropriate Stage 1 tune. Maybe new exhaust, but you aren't ever fighting a torque dip or lack of power. - Refined. No surprises in the first few thousand miles. - Practical. I can haul my drunk friends around without having to drive the wife's CX7. STI Cons: - Kind of ugly. But I have to say, the kid in me still loves the hood scoop. - ~~Turbo lag~~. - WRX's are traditionally driven by Douches. I should know, I drove one for 6 years prior to the FR-S and am an incredible douche. (It's sorta a chicken and egg thing though.) - Expensive. Keep that credit score over 800, kids! - Online community is borderline useless. If it wasn't for the excellent gents over on the SomethingAwful AI forum, I wouldn't even bother looking up any info online. Seriously, pick any issue about an STI you want to know about. Say, how to operate the DCCD. For the love of christ, don't post a thread, else you will be mocked in horribly broken english for not using the search button. Which normally would be fine, except that all searches yield are other threads with no information. Instead your search will only hit threads wherein some other unfortunate soul is being flamed for not using the search button. It's like inception, only with grammatical idiocy instead of freaky dreams. So in Conclusion, the STI is great, the FR-S is also great. I prefer the handling of the FR-S, but I also prefer the predicable build quality of the STI. In a perfect world I would buy a FR-S and have money left over for mods, but that exposes me to warranty violations on a platform that hasn't shown me I can trust it yet. Maybe year model 2015 will have some of my grievances sorted out. I hope so, because I do want to revisit this platform. Until then I'll just have to suffer with this turbo wagon. Last edited by Jar; 07-07-2013 at 02:13 AM.

07-07-2013, 01:34 PM	#4
TylerLieberman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Drives: '24 GR86 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,675 Thanks: 655 Thanked 3,342 Times in 1,576 Posts Mentioned: 16 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Keep the stock intake as the airbox is rated for 400hp and isn't prone to heatsoak like the aftermarket ones are. A drop in filter is sufficient. Exhaust is the same way. Enough flow for nearly 400hp. Honestly, a downpipe and tune is all you need to make that thing fly. Altogether, you can get that done for like $600-$800 depending where you look. Good enough for nearly 300awhp just on those two things alone. That wrx/sti will be available next year as a MY2014 as well. Next gen is a 2015. I miss my old wrx. Truth be told, I'll probably end up back in an STi-which is crazy cause I was always a die hard Evo fan haha. Good review though. I agree with pretty much everything you stated. Glad you're enjoying the new car. A couple small changes and you'll love it even more __________________ Old 2013 FRS Build Thread (SOLD) Hakone 86 GR Build Thread (SOLD)

07-07-2013, 05:22 PM	#6
DarkSunrise Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S) Location: USA Posts: 5,794 Thanks: 2,164 Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,220 Posts Mentioned: 48 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Congrats! I went the opposite direction. Had an 09 STI hatch. Now in an FR-S, so I know and agree with a lot of your comparison between the two. Had some good times with the STI. I actually think that stock, the STI is a bit slow for what it is (Evo competitor), but nothing a TBE + tune can't fix. Power is so easy to come by on that platform. Enjoy the car! Don't forget to red-out those tails =) __________________ "Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time." 2022 BRZ Build 2013 FR-S Build

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07-07-2013, 02:38 AM	#2
EZWood BAMF Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 13 fr-s, whiteout, MT. 94 ZJ Location: Apache Junction, Az Posts: 1,007 Thanks: 209 Thanked 345 Times in 215 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Well put, on the forum thing I came from the the tdi club.com and I thought that was an excellent forum, but you are spot on about this forum for the most part minus the brz owners looking down their noses on us frs owners. If my credit was better I would have had the first year of that generation. I love that body style. Just because you don't have an frs anymore doesn't mean you aren't welcome at the meets and events, and I look forward to seeing your sti.

07-07-2013, 12:09 PM	#3
Jrohit Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Drives: 2013 FRS 10 Series #2072 (6MT) Location: Burtonsville, MD Posts: 832 Thanks: 756 Thanked 261 Times in 209 Posts Mentioned: 37 Post(s) Tagged: 3 Thread(s)	I think you made the right choice for yourself. In the end, it's all about how the cars suit us and our lifestyle. I don't really haul many people around and love driving. It's relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other cars on the market like your STI. The mpg works out best for me with the FRS since I drive somewhat fair distances to work/school. I hope you enjoy your STI, it's a great car which I wanted since I started getting into cars.

07-07-2013, 06:17 PM	#7
kahox Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 FRS, 2010 Evo X GSR Location: Toronto Posts: 32 Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	To the OP, dont let the mod bug bite to hard! lol The power is too easy to get in those plateform. My obsession with my evo x was spending so much money on it .. got to a point with 430awhp and full Varis body kit in 2 years of ownership. I was planning to get the bottom end rebuild etc but realise I should pull myself out of it and focus on better things.

07-07-2013, 10:18 PM	#8
civdaddy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Drives: Slow Location: U.S. Posts: 261 Thanks: 48 Thanked 134 Times in 68 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I know exactly what you mean about 3rd gear in those cars. It just starts hauling ass. I always take the opportunity to drive a friends when I can. Very fun car!!

07-07-2013, 11:33 PM	#11
thill Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: 2020 SS1LE (previous 13 BRZ owner) Location: North Pole Posts: 2,753 Thanks: 328 Thanked 1,463 Times in 802 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Depending on your mileage you drive, cost of ownership is something to consider as well. MPG is a huge difference between these cars, along with things like tires. So pro for he FT86 there. If you live in the snowbelt like me, AWD is a pro for the WRX. I applaud you for your honest comparison. The WRX STi styling is not for me anymore (I am 40+ years old), but they are great cars. My buddy owns a 2012 that he has modded out and the thing is a rocket.. Crazy fast...

07-08-2013, 12:13 PM	#13
Ammonia Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Drives: Whiteout FRS, Audi A4, 135i (sold) Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 918 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 567 Times in 289 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've driven my friend's STI, maybe "fast" is relative to the FRS but it felt really sluggish to me. But you're 100% correct, kind of an apples to oranges comparo. I absolutely prefer coupes over four door cars, so you can see why I'm slightly biased GL with your new endeavors. I do agree, this forum is awesome.

07-08-2013, 12:22 PM	#14
dsgerbc Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: BRZ(sold), STI Location: A2, MI Posts: 1,915 Thanks: 176 Thanked 419 Times in 241 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Should've kept the FR-S too, that's what I'm doing. With STI being your only car you'll get used to that power in a few short weeks, and then it will either start annoying you or the mod bug will become irresistable. I plan on keeping the BRZ, and splitting driving fairly equally. That way I hope I can enjoy the handling of the BRZ more after I switch from the STI, but also enjoy STI power more when I swap back into it from a BRZ.

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