All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

That is a ZF8 speed, right?

I honestly thought the X1 had a ZF 8 speed transmission and i understood (to an extent) how great it was after driving it, but later i found out it was actually an AISIN 8 speed FWD transmission of some kind because the F48 X1 is on BMW's FWD chassis.

As far as i know the ZF transmissions are RWD only.

[Lelandjt]

I just found out ZF is owned by the city of Friedrichshafen (I'm there now). STATE OWNED BUSINESS?!?
COMMUNISM!!!
Seriously though, what a weird thing. This is the richest municipality in the world because in addition to tax revenue they own a frickin massive corporation. You can look up the history of the Zepplin corporation and Freidrichshafen for an interesting story. Oh, and I'm driving a Merc mini-van with an 8spd auto. I assumed it was the ZF but I see above that those are supposedly only in RWD and transfer case 4wd (American pickups). Is that definitely true? The Merc's cruise control will work at 170kph on the autobahn. I haven't tried it any faster.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

I just found out ZF is owned by the city of Friedrichshafen (I'm there now). STATE OWNED BUSINESS?!?
COMMUNISM!!!
Seriously though, what a weird thing. This is the richest municipality in the world because in addition to tax revenue they own a frickin massive corporation. You can look up the history of the Zepplin corporation and Freidrichshafen for an interesting story. Oh, and I'm driving a Merc mini-van with an 8spd auto. I assumed it was the ZF but I see above that those are supposedly only in RWD and transfer case 4wd (American pickups). Is that definitely true? The Merc's cruise control will work at 170kph on the autobahn. I haven't tried it any faster.

Mercedes makes their own gearboxes.
ZF 8HP cars (from wiki), only longitudinally mounted RWD cars:

Alfa Romeo
Alfa Romeo Giulia
Alfa Romeo Stelvio

Alpina
Alpina D3 (F30)
Alpina D4
Alpina B3 (F30)
Alpina B4
Alpina XD3
Alpina D5 (G30/G31)
Alpina B5 (G30/G31)
Alpina B6
Alpina B7

Aston Martin
Aston Martin Vanquish
Aston Martin Rapide
Aston Martin Vantage (2018)
Aston Martin DB11
Aston Martin DBS Superleggera[18]

Audi
Audi S4 North American version
Audi S5 North American version
2011+ Audi A4 North American B8/8.5 Quattro Versions[26]
2011+ Audi A5 North American B8/8.5 Quattro Versions
Audi A6
Audi RS6[27]
Audi RS7[28]
Audi A8[29]
Audi Q5 8AT version[30]
2017+ Audi Q7

Bentley
Bentley Mulsanne (2010)
Bentley Continental GT
Bentley Flying Spur (2013)
Bentley Bentayga

BMW
BMW 1 Series (F20)
2014+ BMW 2 Series
2012+ BMW 3 Series
2014+ BMW 4 Series
2010+ BMW 5 Series
BMW 5 GT
BMW 6 Series
BMW 7 series
BMW 8 Series
BMW X1 (First Generation)
BMW X3
BMW X4
BMW X5
BMW X6
BMW X7
BMW Z4

Chrysler
Chrysler 300 (2012+ MY),[31] V8 (2015+ MY)
3.6L Pentastar V6 (845RE)
5.7L HEMI V8 (8HP70)

Dodge
Dodge Challenger (2015+ MY)
3.6 Pentastar V6 (845RE)
5.7, 6.4 HEMI V8 (8HP70)
6.2L HEMI Supercharged V8 (8HP90)
Dodge Charger
3.6L Pentastar V6, 2012+ MY,[32] 845RE
HEMI V8 (2015+ MY; 5.7L, 6.4L 8HP70; 6.2L Supercharged 8HP90)
Dodge Durango[33][34](2014 MY+)
3.6L Pentastar V6 (845RE 2014-2017, 850RE 2018-)
5.7, 6.4 HEMI V8 (8HP70)
6.2L HEMI Supercharged V8 (8HP95)

Great Wall Motors
Pao (2019–Present)
TANK 500 (2021–Present)

Haval
H8 (2017-2018)
H9 (2017-)

INEOS Automotive
Ineos Grenadier

Iveco
Iveco Daily 2014-on [35]

Jaguar
F-Type
F-Pace
XE
XF (2012-)
XFR (2012-)
XJ

Jeep
Jeep Grand Cherokee (WK2) (2014 MY+)
3.6L Pentastar V6 (845RE 2014-2016, 850RE 2017-)
3.0L EcoDiesel V6 (8HP70 2014-2016, 8HP75 2017-)
5.7L, 6.4L HEMI V8 (8HP70)
6.2L HEMI Supercharged V8 (8HP95)
Jeep Wrangler/Unlimited (JL) (2018 MY+)
2.0 Hurricane (Turbocharged) I4 (850RE)
3.6L Pentastar V6 (850RE)
3.0 EcoDiesel V6 (8HP75 2020-)
Jeep Gladiator (JT) (2020 MY+)
3.6 Pentastar V6 (850RE)
3.0 EcoDiesel V6 (8HP75)

JMC
JMC Vigus[36]

Lamborghini
Lamborghini Urus

Lancia
Thema V6

Land Rover
Discovery 4/LR4
Range Rover
Range Rover Sport
Velar
Defender

Maserati
Maserati Ghibli III
Maserati Quattroporte[37]
Maserati Levante

Morgan
Plus Six
Plus Four

Porsche
Cayenne (2018–present)

Ram Trucks
Ram 1500 3.6L Pentastar V6 (2013 MY+)
Ram 1500 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 (2014 MY+)
Ram 1500 5.7L HEMI V8[38][39][40] (2013 MY+)
Ram 2500/3500 6.4L HEMI V8 (2019 MY+)
Ram 1500 TRX 6.2L HEMI Supercharged V8 (2021 MY+)

Rolls-Royce
Rolls-Royce Ghost
Rolls-Royce Phantom VII
Rolls-Royce Wraith (2013)
Rolls-Royce Dawn
Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII
Rolls-Royce Cullinan

Toyota
Toyota Supra 5th generation

VinFast
VinFast LUX A2.0
VinFast LUX SA2.0

Volkswagen
Volkswagen Amarok[41]
Volkswagen Crafter and MAN TGE (2017+) (longitudinally mounted engine only)
Volkswagen Touareg (3rd generation)

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I kind of dont understand the transmission stuff either.

Between a traditional automatic and a DCT
Is it just the shift speed?

The reason they shift so fast is because of the design. There are two "lay shafts" so the next gear is already dialed up and ready to go. It's just a matter of disengaging one clutch and engaging the other. Which it can simultaneously.

And the downshifts, on a well tuned DCT, are always smoother than anything we can do with our feet/hands. So it's faster and smoother at the same time.

The DCT/PDK are pretty fascinating, there are some good videos on YouTube that show how they work, but transmissions and differentials are still VooDoo to me.

[timurrrr]

One thing that I think we've been neglecting is shift logic.

I drove an M2 with DCT and 981 Cayman S with PDK on track the same day.
The DCT was quick to shift, but was absolutely horrible at choosing gears.
It would be one gear too high in each corner, and then downshift after
the corner as I tried to accelerate. I ended up switching to manual mode
fairly quickly. Whereas the 981 PDK was choosing the right gear all the time.
Also it had those weird push/pull shifters on the steering wheel that I found
very un-intuitive, so I ended up just driving it in full auto, and it was still great.

I haven't driven an auto 86 to have a strong opinion on whether its gear
selection logic is good or not.

[racingfool]

PDK seems durable also.

50 back-to-back launches

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by racingfool

PDK seems durable also.

A Turbo S also stickered at $200k. There’s more DCTs with very expensive issues that are not easily remedied (R35 GTR, Ford Powershift, Hyundai/Kia DCT, etc.)

[Lelandjt]

The durability issue with a DCT (and the old single clutch autos found in Ferrari & Lamborgini) is when creeping in traffic, parking lots, or general city driving. Most of these drivers don't realize that from 0-5ish mph the clutch is slipping. In a normal manual you are conscious of when you're slipping the clutch and minimize it. Those wearing clutches definitely need to be replaced. I cringe when I see a Porsche PDK creeping around. I bet most of their owners are used to a slushbox and have no idea that the automatic transmission in their new Porsche is much less tolerant of this type of use. I think that was the big problem Hyundai had selling CUVs with DCTs to soccer moms who had only ever drive a slushbox and probably didn't even know what a clutch is.
It's the same reason that if you are one of the people who wants a sports car but leans toward getting an auto over a manual because you commute in traffic a DCT is not the solution. The ZF 8HP is. In fact, the Supra might be the best sports car for a city driver for just this reason.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

One thing that I think we've been neglecting is shift logic.

I drove an M2 with DCT and 981 Cayman S with PDK on track the same day.
The DCT was quick to shift, but was absolutely horrible at choosing gears.
It would be one gear too high in each corner, and then downshift after
the corner as I tried to accelerate. I ended up switching to manual mode
fairly quickly. Whereas the 981 PDK was choosing the right gear all the time.
Also it had those weird push/pull shifters on the steering wheel that I found
very un-intuitive, so I ended up just driving it in full auto, and it was still great.

I haven't driven an auto 86 to have a strong opinion on whether its gear
selection logic is good or not.

Yeah, not sure why'd you ever use the auto mode.

And I hate that you have to buy a $2k steering wheel from Porsche to have normal paddle shifters. It's why I stopped searching for a 981 S because so few that option and it's a few thousand to add it on after the fact.

[Arthur-A]

Originally Posted by Graf Orlok

For those of you who have been looking forward to seeing the ZD8 get sideways, like I have...

I always wondered why these cars are so hesitant to go sideways. Like in this video, it's clear that the car wants to straighten out. It doesn't like to hold angle. The driver is great by the way.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by Arthur-A

I always wondered why these cars are so hesitant to go sideways. Like in this video, it's clear that the car wants to straighten out. It doesn't like to hold angle. The driver is great by the way.

Those were both BRZs. So maybe Toyota is onto something with their different spring rates. Can't wait to hear the back to back drift comparisons.

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Arthur-A

I always wondered why these cars are so hesitant to go sideways. Like in this video, it's clear that the car wants to straighten out. It doesn't like to hold angle. The driver is great by the way.

It drifts fine. It actually looks very easy to slide in my opinion.

Similar to my E36 or 350Z drift cars honestly. But I guess I’ll test it for myself once mine arrives.

[Yoshoobaroo]

I’m confused. On what planet is this car hesitant to go sideways? It’s one of the most tailhappy cars available.

[Arthur-A]

I mean you CAN go sideways in a twin, but it'll always be shallow angle and the car will always try to straighten out. Nowhere close to what S-chassis, E36 or 350Z can do.

Like this video for example. This is almost stock E36 angle wise except for the coilovers, hydro e brake and welded diff. Stock angle, stock engine, stock suspension arms, etc. I see people spend over $2000 on an angle kit alone for a twin and even after thousands of dollars it's not much different from this near stock E36 can do. And those are pretty good drivers.