2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[vh_supra26]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/off...-concept.1622/

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I don't think SUVs were popular 30 years ago but maybe in your neck of the woods certainly not in big city centers.

Besides, in the last 15 or so years even if the average driver knew how to turn off traction and stability control to spin the wheels out of a sticky situation how many average cars these days do you think even allow the feature to be fully turned off.

I sure hope BMW I mean Toyota included a DSC button somewhere on the center console of the Zupra and not buried somewhere deep in some iDrive menu.

They can almost all be turned off. You have gone full circle back to where I started. Many of the drivers just don't know how to turn them off. At this point I am no longer even sure what your point is actually. I referenced the 30 year since that is how long that cars have had the features you said cause issues in the snow. SUVs are better in deep snow yes but that does not mean that all the cars are useless in it. With the proper tires and driving technique they can all function fine. The advantages of the SUV are meaningless if they are not used properly. The marketing makes them seem invincible but they are not. A bad driver in an SUV can get stuck just as easily as a bad driver in a Corolla.

What is with this "big city" snobbery shit anyway? London has almost 500,000 people in it. It is larger than many boroughs of Toronto if taken individually. It isn't some sort of backwoods hicktown that you have implied several times now.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/off...-concept.1622/

Now if those side "vent" inserts were body colour the car would look far better to me! One of the design aspects I didn't care for was the fake vents and that fills them in nicely. It gives the lines a flow without breaking them.

[wrxgoose]

Makes me glad we don't get much snow here. People in the south forget how to drive when it rains, ffs.

I'm looking forward to the new Supra. Plan on picking up a Launch Edition

[gymratter]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wwuP-_ADTM[/ame]

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. People got through that stuff before SUVs existed and still manage most of the time.

Yes sure you didn't have SUVs, but you had light duty trucks or pick-up trucks. On the drive-ability side it is about better ground clearance and about four wheel drive. I don't bite the argument of comparing a SUV having all season or summer tires with a two wheel drive small car having snow tires. If you compare with equal tires, then it is a night day comparison.

Sports car segment and sedan segment is slowly dying and I believe one main reason is this. The only thing that could stop in future the SUV dominance is some social changes like the urbanization, the smaller households, the ageing population, in conjunction with the increasing emission regulations. These factors could boost the fortune of the smaller car segment and maybe of the small sports car segment. For the time being demand looks to push in the other direction ...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes sure you didn't have SUVs, but you had light duty trucks or pick-up trucks. On the drive-ability side it is about better ground clearance and about four wheel drive. I don't bite the argument of comparing a SUV having all season or summer tires with a two wheel drive small car having snow tires. If you compare with equal tires, then it is a night day comparison.

Sports car segment and sedan segment is slowly dying and I believe one main reason is this. The only thing that could stop in future the SUV dominance is some social changes like the urbanization, the smaller households, the ageing population, in conjunction with the increasing emission regulations. These factors could boost the fortune of the smaller car segment and maybe of the small sports car segment.

For the time being demand looks to push in the other direction ...

If we are playing time traveler then take the trucks out of the equation. Until the late 80s the number of pickup trucks on the road was minuscule. The ones that existed were work trucks not grocery getters. Not to mention some of the very worst vehicles I have ever driven in the snow were pick up truck. The height is great the traction sucks big time. The balance is all wrong for snow.
I am not disputing that SUVs are BETTER in the snow. My dispute is that all other cars are immobilized as soon as there are a few inches. The whole idea is ludicrous.
The small car segment is doing just fine. The SUVs are not going to take over the world. All they have done is replace the large sedan and station wagon segments. No real loss.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If we are playing time traveler then take the trucks out of the equation. Until the late 80s the number of pickup trucks on the road was minuscule. The ones that existed were work trucks not grocery getters. Not to mention some of the very worst vehicles I have ever driven in the snow were pick up truck. The height is great the traction sucks big time. The balance is all wrong for snow.
I am not disputing that SUVs are BETTER in the snow. My dispute is that all other cars are immobilized as soon as there are a few inches. The whole idea is ludicrous.
The small car segment is doing just fine. The SUVs are not going to take over the world. All they have done is replace the large sedan and station wagon segments. No real loss.

It sounds that you don't like the SUV's that much? VW said recently that they want to offer 30 different SUV/Crossover models by 2025. Currently they offer 11 different models. If this is not a SUV take over then what is it?

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What is with this "big city" snobbery shit anyway? London has almost 500,000 people in it. It is larger than many boroughs of Toronto if taken individually. It isn't some sort of backwoods hicktown that you have implied several times now.

Actually I think Ontario is pretty much a backwood hicks province including Toronto (borderline 3rd World until very recently with all the influx of foreign cash), but Toronto is not redneck country to have a ton of pickup trucks (most of them put weights into the flatbed to help with traction). We have a lot of stupid snow banks from plows that would ice up hard and hilly sections to deal with like in North York. Now the city waits forever before it even starts to plow to save money. I see sedans and small cars getting stuck all the time all the way back to the early 90's (I've only been here for that long). The newer cars even worse with hardly any clearance in the front lower bumper and around the wheel well with big wheels, cracked front lower valances is a common scene. The modern common SUVs are already fairing better with the snow conditions. I doubt your sports car excels in this (I remember the days seeing 240SX always spinning out). I don't think you get out much to see.

[squall leonhart]

Not sure where this fits in the argument, it certainly doesn't really fit into 2020 Supra discussion...but back in the mid-90s before SUVs were quite the thing they are now, my brother had a light duty truck. Back then, it was just a normal truck. But now it would be toy sized. It was just RWD...but it had ground clearance. Admittedly I have no clue what tires he had, as I was his brat brother in Jr. High and didn't really care about trucks...still don't for the most part. It was horrible in snow unless it had plenty of sandbags in the bed and driven super carefully. (And I think he still had to use some of those sand bags to get un-stuck multiple times).

My dad has a '92 Wrangler 4x4. Not great in snow. It has chunky tires, but not snow tires, as he generally prefers to leave the top off. It's a summer vehicle. I only remember driving it once on snow, and it was scary. My daily driver back then was my '86 Celica (with some Mastercraft, probably all-season tire)...I don't ever remember feeling as scared in snow in it as in the Jeep with the 4WD engaged.

In the early 2000's I had my '88 Celica All-Trac...with cheapo Firestone Winterforce tires for winter. I have never felt safer driving in snow than in that car. It was completely controlled, and so much fun.

I drove my 2000 Celica GT-S through a 13"+ blizzard on a 7 or so hour round trip to see a concert about 10 years ago. Saw cars, plenty of SUVs, semi trucks and emergency personnel off the road. I cracked the paint on my bumper because in many places I was plowing through 2 foot high walls left by snow plows. Back then I had Bridgestone Blizzaks. Now 10 or so years later it has new Cooper Evolution snow tires. They've been working nicely as well...I've found a few times I'm getting held up by SUVs with AWD. And I drive very carefully in snow, and the Celica is lowered on coilovers (threads are too old and dirty now to raise it back up for winter). I tend to use the back roads to get into town for work, because the main roads that are better plowed are more dangerous from stupid drivers.

All I'm saying is, IMO, 2WD low clearance cars can hold their own in snow with proper tires. Sure, an AWD SUV with snow tires is going to have better traction than my little Celica. But the Celica is still safe and quite driveable. I don't generally see SUVs or trucks with snow tires, because they seem to believe that they can already go anywhere in any weather (and at any speed) because they have AWD/4WD, so snow tires would just be a "waste of money".

I'm sick of being surrounded by SUVs and huge trucks. But I see no end in sight. I'd much rather be surrounded by new Supras. There we go...back on topic.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It sounds that you don't like the SUV's that much?

They serve their purpose.

Originally Posted by krayzie

I don't think you get out much to see.

You don't know shit about how much I get out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by squall leonhart

There we go...back on topic.

Yep. You got the point. They seem to dance around it and change what I was saying.

Back on topic.

I am waiting to hear some non biased driver reviews from ordinary (not press type) folks. It will be more telling than anything.

[nikitopo]

It is one of the main topics. People are wondering why Toyota could not develop the Supra on their own. It is just too expensive nowadays with the consumer interest going towards to other vehicle categories. Or to tell it in other terms, Toyota wanted to get back to the sports car business without spending too much. So, they did at first a collaboration with Subaru and now with BMW. Tomorrow who knows with which company. Personally I am not a Toyota fun. I am a Subaru fun and I was happy when BRZ came out of this collaboration. I am sure that BMW funs will be happy too with the Supra collaboration. Maybe they wouldn't see the new Z4 that soon and maybe the new car is more reliable than its predecessors. Anyway, I am not that frequent reader here nor do I post that often. Maybe this discussion has been done already and I have not any mood to argue with Tcoat or as what he says to "dance around". Have fun guys!

[wrxgoose]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am waiting to hear some non biased driver reviews from ordinary (not press type) folks. It will be more telling than anything.

I plan on hooking up my dashcam and trying to do a review once I get one. Also, to toss it up on a dyno day 1 or 2. We'll see what it actually makes


Edit: looks like first deliveries will be in july.