Any good reason to stick with 1st Gen?

[Frost]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is not a bad looking car, but it lacks the old saying "built by passion not by committee". Little things like the fender humps or the manual A/C with the option to delete in entry level grades or the analog display cluster or the buttonless steering wheel and so on.

I think there's a slight bias in the approach with this comment here... Toyota is not going to add an option to the system for someone to delete the air-con. They want to mass buy stuff to keep costs down but you're asking them to add cost so you can save cost. And that's just you - how many buyers (not potential but REAL buyers) will actually exercise this option? And will that offset the savings they net from the mass buy of the parts?

Answer is probably - its worth it to piss off the one or two people who want to delete stuff. They can do it themselves for x dollars while we potentially save y (much bigger amount dollars).

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

The fender humps are still there, take a look at any review of the car.

They’re not as pronounced and are more subtle, I guess this is where it comes down to what you prefer.

Agree on your other comments, it is a fantastic job by Toyota and Subaru and at one point we didn’t think we’d get a 2nd gen and yet here we are.

We’re lucky the car exists.

[Opie]

Paid off, lighter, new parts will transfer over; long block, knuckles, etc....

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Normally I might agree, but in this case they've only improved the car. I've owned 3 miatas, and a first year FRS. I'm all for what you're talking about and I know where you're coming from.

...
Small rant because it sucks to hear complaints about things that either don't exist, or aren't an issue, especially when Toyota did an incredible job on the GR86.

There are many ways to improve a car. When Toyota requested in first generation to achieve a 100ps/liter, the first reaction of Subaru engineers was that this cannot be achieved and that they should increase the engine displacement. Toyota insisted that there should be another way and introduced the D4-S system together with other engine improvements. We haven't seen much on the new car yet, but for me some things are bad decisions and contrary to popular belief the involvement of Toyota wasn't the same as in the first gen. About the rest you can check below.

Originally Posted by Frost

I think there's a slight bias in the approach with this comment here... Toyota is not going to add an option to the system for someone to delete the air-con. They want to mass buy stuff to keep costs down but you're asking them to add cost so you can save cost. And that's just you - how many buyers (not potential but REAL buyers) will actually exercise this option? And will that offset the savings they net from the mass buy of the parts?

Answer is probably - its worth it to piss off the one or two people who want to delete stuff. They can do it themselves for x dollars while we potentially save y (much bigger amount dollars).

There isn't any bias at all. They did it in the past and now they are not doing it. This was exactly what they meant by saying "built by passion not by committee". Like the option to offer two different climate control units – one for the enthusiast and one for the ordinary buyer with dual zone – and the option of an A/C delete without caring about the extra manufacturing costs. It is the little details that count.

[wbradley]

Nikitopo, I think you tend to knit pick a bit. Most likely Toyota determined the cost is the same or very close to offer the automatic HVAC controls across the board at this time. Plus, there is a continuous push to improve each successive model and this would be seen as an overall improvement.

I am happy that I have manual HVAC controls for a longterm keeper economy car as is is less likely to fail being cable operated, but the auto looks better for sure.

The RC model might actually lose money due to assembly variation and or reducing economy of scale on all components. Plus I am guessing the purchasers expect to pay significantly less, not more for this special production run. The profit in this case is the grassroots marketing earned while proving the platform on a regular basis at one make or specific category racing events.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Like the option to offer two different climate control units – one for the enthusiast and one for the ordinary buyer with dual zone – and the option of an A/C delete without caring about the extra manufacturing costs. It is the little details that count.

When was this an option? It certainly wasn't in 2013. I believe the dual climate control was included in some Special Editions, but that doesn't make it an option.

[Frost]

I don't recall AC being optional - it was always included even in the base Scion with the shitty radio from the 90s.

[dragoontwo]

I think it started in 17+ on the higher trim models.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

When was this an option? It certainly wasn't in 2013. I believe the dual climate control was included in some Special Editions, but that doesn't make it an option.

Yeah there was no option, just there in some specs for certain countries and special editions.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

There are many ways to improve a car. When Toyota requested in first generation to achieve a 100ps/liter, the first reaction of Subaru engineers was that this cannot be achieved and that they should increase the engine displacement. Toyota insisted that there should be another way and introduced the D4-S system together with other engine improvements. We haven't seen much on the new car yet, but for me some things are bad decisions and contrary to popular belief the involvement of Toyota wasn't the same as in the first gen. About the rest you can check below.



There isn't any bias at all. They did it in the past and now they are not doing it. This was exactly what they meant by saying "built by passion not by committee". Like the option to offer two different climate control units – one for the enthusiast and one for the ordinary buyer with dual zone – and the option of an A/C delete without caring about the extra manufacturing costs. It is the little details that count.

Totally disagree. The clearest point of difference between these two cars is the engine.

In the efforts to give the enthusiasts what they wanted they have kept to their guns on the car, at the expense of the entire EU market.

By going up in engine capacity, instead of whacking on a turbo and be done with it, they have essentially killed its price for EU - Subaru wont even try.

The engine not being 100hp per litre anymore has nothing to do with passion or committee, I mean I think you have been hooked into a media marking line if I'm being honest.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Like the option to offer two different climate control units – one for the enthusiast and one for the ordinary buyer with dual zone [...]

For the "enthusiast"? Seriously?
IMO the base A/C control modules is one of the worst things they did with the 1st gen, along the horrible radio.
They made the radio less horrible as years went by, but the base A/C they kept available all the way until 2020...

Also FYI, there are markets where only the dual-zone option was available.

[Dylans47]

It sounds like a couple users are really here to nitpick and want to justify by any means to stick with the first gen. It's as simple as: If you have a current gen and prefer the looks, have a connection to yours, or are strapped for cash, just keep it! Otherwise consider the upgrade!

Imagine someone who has no issue with money and has never owned an 86twin asks if they should go for the GR86 or BRZ/FRS/86, you'd be delusional not to recommend the GR86. Plain and simple.

[Frost]

I'll be totally honest with my situation, when I was looking to buy a fun car, it was either a BRZ (cuz the Scion had a shit radio and AC), Lotus Elise SC or an S2000. This was back in 2015ish.

The AC and the radio alone on the FRS turned me away from a sale. The S2000 was simply a better car overall (tranny and engine).

Fast forward to 2021/2022, the GR86 now has a shifter that gets CLOSE to the S2000 (not quite - not quite sadly), the engine is finally better in performance (you can argue about sound but I'm more function over form) and the lack of a convertible is actually a PLUS for me (since I'm gonna go track it and convertibles require a SCCA approved rollbar or equivalent) and the GR86... HAS. A. TRUNK (a much more useable one). I no longer have to race on the same tires I drove to the track on.

In my opinion, the GR86 is every way a better car than the first gen. It beat out an S2000 (in the numbers and capability - I am not counting the nostalgia and halo-effect the S2000 has). This isn't meant to crap on the first gens, they were and still are amazing cars to hoon and learn to drive with. I'll still happily pick one up for the right price but with 2nd hand cars being SO stupidly priced right now, the GR86 made way more sense.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

It sounds like a couple users are really here to nitpick and want to justify by any means to stick with the first gen. It's as simple as: If you have a current gen and prefer the looks, have a connection to yours, or are strapped for cash, just keep it! Otherwise consider the upgrade!

Imagine someone, where money isn't an issue, has never owned an 86twin asks if they should go for the GR86 or BRZ/FRS/86, you'd be delusional not to recommend the GR86. Plain and simple.

That new car CANNOT be better than mine!!!!

I will not allow it!