Finally drove an FR-S. I think I understand now.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Why? Probably because the Twins' 5-60 mph time sucks. The low 0-60 time is only achievable by dumping the clutch and having a bit of wheel spin. And I doubt most people are irresponsible enough to do that on the street on a regular basis. People are so focused on 0-60 time but the performance stat that matters on the street is the rolling start, 5-60.

Just look at Car and Driver's test of a 2016 BRZ. 0-60 in 6.3 seconds. 5-60 in 8.0 seconds. That is slow. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...aru-brz-review

For reference, every minivan in this comparison test can do 5-60 in less than 8 seconds. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-5

I'm not stating this as a slam against the Twins, rather just pointing out a statistical fact.

That's more a reflection of how fast V6 minivans have become rather than how slow the Twins are. Average 5-60 time of the minivans in that test is 7.8 seconds.

Average 5-60 time in this hot hatch comparison (500 Abarth, Fiesta ST, Cooper S): 7.5 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-5

5-60 time of the S2000: 7.3 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

5-60 time of the Mugen Civic SI: 7.5 seconds
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

If you're in any of those cars and think you're going to easily beat a minivan without a launch (or at least a clutch slip), you're in for a surprise.

[WolfpackS2k]

^^Dude, come on. The fact remains that the minivan driver just had to floor it and go. The BRZ driver has to nail 2 perfect shifts. The Minivan driver is gonna get the edge most of the time if they really want to.

I'm not arguing that the minivan driver is having more fun, or is a better driver. I"m not arguing that we should all buy minivans instead. Rather, I'm just pointing out that, yes, its not difficult for a BRZ to be beaten at a stoplight by a minivan.

^I agree, they're quick. Again, I'm not judging minivans or BRZs. I'm just pointing out a fact, to counter a misconception that keeps being repeated on here.

[Mr.Impreza]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

^^Dude, come on. The fact remains that the minivan driver just had to floor it and go. The BRZ driver has to nail 2 perfect shifts. The Minivan driver is gonna get the edge most of the time if they really want to.

I'm not arguing that the minivan driver is having more fun, or is a better driver. I"m not arguing that we should all buy minivans instead. Rather, I'm just pointing out that, yes, its not difficult for a BRZ to be beaten at a stoplight by a minivan.

^are you even paying attention to what I'm saying? I'm not judging minivans or BRZs. I'm just pointing out a fact, to counter a misconception that keeps being repeated on here.

Who cares man?
Look at the future....look at Tesla...those cars will kill everything with a gasoline engine in the future.
Automatics have become faster etc....so what?

Technology advances.

The 86/BRZ was not designed to be the future or revolutionary, it was designed as a back to the roots sports car.

I've never experience a time in this car in stock form that i was crying for more power.

It easy to overtake, on the highway it's a joy and easy to pass.
In the city, same thing.

The only time i ever feel "slow" is at stop lights, but honestly, i felt the same in my subaru stage 2 sti because automatics always take off the line quicker.

[WolfpackS2k]

I feel like some of you aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying.

I've clearly stated that I'm just pointing out statistics. Do I care? No. I said I'm not judging the Twins on this. I still love the Twins.

I was just countering often repeated misinformation. That. Is. It.

But to antagonize you, if technology advances so much...why aren't the Twins faster?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I've clearly stated that I'm just pointing out statistics. Do I care? No. I said I'm not judging the Twins on this. I still love the Twins.

I was just countering often repeated misinformation. That. Is. It.

Actually I think you misunderstood what he was saying. Quoting for posterity:

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS

Why are we getting dogged by minivans? If you drive a manual you should be able to leave pretty quick. You shouldn't be racing minivans anyway, and you shouldn't get left by them

He's saying you should beat a minivan if you launch or clutch slip (things you can't do in an automatic). He's right about that. There's no misinformation from what I can tell. I think maybe you just misunderstood him?

[Mr.Impreza]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I feel like some of you aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying.

I've clearly stated that I'm just pointing out statistics. Do I care? No. I said I'm not judging the Twins on this. I still love the Twins.

I was just countering often repeated misinformation. That. Is. It.

But to antagonize you, if technology advances so much...why aren't the Twins faster?

No offense, but why are you even here anymore? From your signature you sold the car or it died.

It's like me being on a Porche forum and saying "hey guys, I'd like to point out some statistics, did you know that the Nissan GTR is faster than a Cayman S?...yep...well...enjoy your Porsche...but just know...at the lights...the GTR will smoke you!"

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Malibooya

So I'm on the hunt for a BRZ Limited now, though I feel like I'm gonna miss the sunroof. (Seriously, would it kill them to offer one?)

Probably wouldn't kill them, but it would also would not be an insignificant engineering effort. The entire roof support system would most likely have to be changed. It's not quite as simple as cutting a hole in the roof and putting in a piece of glass.

Could they have designed it for one from the beginning? Yes. Most likely they would have added the frame to every car (with or without the sunroof) adding to the weight, and raising the CG.

Current frame.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

No offense, but why are you even here anymore? From your signature you sold the car or it died.

It's like me being on a Porche forum and saying "hey guys, I'd like to point out some statistics, did you know that the Nissan GTR is faster than a Cayman S?...yep...well...enjoy your Porsche...but just know...at the lights...the GTR will smoke you!"

I didn't realize people aren't allowed here if they don't own the featured car. I still appreciate the BRZ for what it is and follow it's continual development with interest. I haven't owned an S2000 in over 4 years and I still post frequently on www.s2ki.com, as do countless others that have moved on to other cars. In fact most of us over there have a somewhat strong distaste for almost everything Honda currently builds. If I were put in a position where I need to own a more practical (and affordable to maintain) vehicle the BRZ, despite it's power shortcomings, would still be at or near the top of the list.

[everythingsablur]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

If I were put in a position where I need to own a more practical (and affordable to maintain) vehicle the BRZ, despite it's power shortcomings, would still be at or near the top of the list.

Never thought I'd see someone say the Twins were the PRACTICAL choice, but given your other cars, I suppose that is a relative statement.

[FX86]

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS

Why are we getting dogged by minivans? If you drive a manual you should be able to leave pretty quick. You shouldn't be racing minivans anyway, and you shouldn't get left by them

when a woman pulls up next to you in a R/T Dodge Caravan and floors it once the light turns green because she thinks she is Danica Patrick then our stock (automatic) cars gets smoked

[RichardsFRS]

Maybe so for a stock auto. If you have a manual, dump it floor it and your gone. I'm just saying the car in manual isn't that slow. It's not camaro fast but it isn't that slow either.

[Shinigami301]

If you're worried about stoplight racing, perhaps you have the wrong car- or the wrong attitude for this car.

[RichardsFRS]

I use to see quite the few redlight racers but not many these days, and I've never seen them in minivans lol
These are road cars not strip cars. I have this and I've had the other and both are fun in different ways

[Mr.Impreza]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I didn't realize people aren't allowed here if they don't own the featured car. I still appreciate the BRZ for what it is and follow it's continual development with interest. I haven't owned an S2000 in over 4 years and I still post frequently on www.s2ki.com, as do countless others that have moved on to other cars. In fact most of us over there have a somewhat strong distaste for almost everything Honda currently builds. If I were put in a position where I need to own a more practical (and affordable to maintain) vehicle the BRZ, despite it's power shortcomings, would still be at or near the top of the list.

Hey sorry about that! No harm intended, I was in a defensive morning mood with my coffee today!

Again sorry man! Enjoy the rest of your day