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Old 04-19-2016, 07:07 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by ATaraxias View Post
This WORKS stg2 kit hit the dyno at a blazing 202 WHP...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1457659699
Without a before/after it's kinda meaningless
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:28 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by DocWalt View Post
Without a before/after it's kinda meaningless
You're right, that FRS with the stg2 WORKS kit could have a baseline dyno of 100WHP.


Without a before measurement, we will never truly know if we have definitively found the slowest stock FRS on the Planet.
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:31 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by ATaraxias View Post
You're right, that FRS with the stg2 WORKS kit could have a baseline dyno of 100WHP.


Without a before measurement, we will never truly know if we have definitively found the slowest stock FRS on the Planet.
Dyno probably reads much lower than it should, or the tune on the works kit is way too conservative
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:50 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by ATaraxias View Post
You're right, that FRS with the stg2 WORKS kit could have a baseline dyno of 100WHP.


Without a before measurement, we will never truly know if we have definitively found the slowest stock FRS on the Planet.
If the stock car dyno baselined at 150whp (not unreasonable) then 202whp is a massive gain on crappy Cali pump gas, lol

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Dyno probably reads much lower than it should, or the tune on the works kit is way too conservative
Bingo. I'm betting on a conservative tune (it is CARB approved and has to keep the cats and the CARB weenies happy) and the relatively small stock WORKS turbo limiting things a bit. It's pretty clear that the torque curve starts tapering off at 6500 RPM which is likely the turbo petering out.
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:55 PM   #285
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Dyno probably reads much lower than it should, or the tune on the works kit is way too conservative
When you make a FRS turbo kit CARB compliant, it appears you have to make a lot of sacrifices. One of those sacrifices appears to be a substantial gain in WHP over a stock FRS.

40-50 WHP gain isn't nothing, but for the price WORKS wants, I honestly have no idea why people are going this route versus another CARB complaint FI option, aside from... legal turbo brah.

@DocWalt, Can you show me a stock FRS that has dyno'ed at 150 WHP on a Dynojet?
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:05 PM   #286
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I'm not going to waste my life looking for a baseline for that specific car on that specific dyno. Every dyno reads differently...

The price that WORKS charges for their CARB legal kit is right in line with other CARB legal FI setups. Some of them make a bit more power than others. Meh.

I don't see what the big deal is anyway, so one car dyno'd at some low peak numbers? Who cares, the torque gains they got down low are HUGE.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:20 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocWalt View Post
If the stock car dyno baselined at 150whp (not unreasonable) then 202whp is a massive gain on crappy Cali pump gas, lol



Bingo. I'm betting on a conservative tune (it is CARB approved and has to keep the cats and the CARB weenies happy) and the relatively small stock WORKS turbo limiting things a bit. It's pretty clear that the torque curve starts tapering off at 6500 RPM which is likely the turbo petering out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATaraxias View Post
When you make a FRS turbo kit CARB compliant, it appears you have to make a lot of sacrifices. One of those sacrifices appears to be a substantial gain in WHP over a stock FRS.

40-50 WHP gain isn't nothing, but for the price WORKS wants, I honestly have no idea why people are going this route versus another CARB complaint FI option, aside from... legal turbo brah.

@DocWalt, Can you show me a stock FRS that has dyno'ed at 150 WHP on a Dynojet?

I can help @DocWalt here, its common to get 140-150 whp on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno it'll take some searching to dig one up on the forum but they are there, I'm not going to waste my time finding them as you already seem to have made up your mind. Also it's not the turbo kits fault it's the tune, get a different tune and I have no doubt it will make 230-250 hp if it wasn't on california crap 91 OR wasn't on a legal tune. Also it's $4800 for a CARB stage 1 legal kit that isn't bad, but its cheaper than some of the CARB legal SCs out there if not equal in price. There Stage 1 Carb legal kit is also $4000 and that's in the same range as other kits in the market if not the cheaper eschelon of them.

Also I think you're being a bit of a keyboard warrior here, it's very difficult to engineer a CARB legal turbo because you are heavily modifying the exhaust manifold or use of a catalytic converter(normally), WORKs maybe the only one that designed a kit that retains OEM catalytic converter in the header(in fact it lets you retain the entire stock header, leaving you open to swap other uel headers if you like) as well as the front pipe CAT. Literally all the turbo kit replaces in the exhaust is the overpipe, that must've taken some serious time and thought. Also the stage 1 carb kit appears to have no intercooler but instead uses a type of charge cooler from the pictures, this is sort of inline with the Stage 1 non intercooled sprintex kit then.



If I had to go FI I personally will be going JRSC regardless.....
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Last edited by FRSBRZGT86FAN; 04-19-2016 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:36 PM   #288
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I certainly don't want to offend, I agree that the numbers on that graph are pretty darn weak, but without a baseline it's impossible to really say the kit is at fault.

FWIW I've been cross-shopping the WORKS kit (non CARB) & the Harrop kit. Both are very well engineered kits and at least the Harrop is great on track. Not a huge amount of track data (IATs, oil temps, etc) being shared on the WORKS kit yet, but it looks like a solid package even with the small turbo.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:26 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocWalt View Post
Without a before/after it's kinda meaningless
For reference, a stock car makes about 145whp at the @Elite Performance dyno.

You can extrapolate 218whp to be 296 crank hp, based on their dyno, which is pretty solid. Not perfect math, but its based on known results. Pretty solid for 91 octane. Also note that this is tuned by Eric at Elite, not the CARB tune.

Supporting mods, if any, are unknown.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:03 PM   #290
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Quote:
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Just realized that I forgot to post my results after time on the dyno:



Again this is with a GTX2971R instead of the GT28 that the kit comes with, and at ~14 psi on ~E65. The whp vs vehicle speed plot of this same run actually shows the peak power at 361 whp and there were actually 3 different vaccum/boost leaks during this run that weren't found until later. I haven't been back on the dyno since then to see how the plot has changed, but it certainly feels even better with the leaks fixed. This is with the P&L catless header and a catted front pipe. I'm considering replacing the header with one that has shorter runners/piping to improve spool.

The 254whp run is final stage 1 results (with the GT28) on E65.
Very cool, thanks for sharing!
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Old 04-20-2016, 07:09 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATaraxias View Post
When you make a FRS turbo kit CARB compliant, it appears you have to make a lot of sacrifices. One of those sacrifices appears to be a substantial gain in WHP over a stock FRS.

40-50 WHP gain isn't nothing, but for the price WORKS wants, I honestly have no idea why people are going this route versus another CARB complaint FI option, aside from... legal turbo brah.

@DocWalt, Can you show me a stock FRS that has dyno'ed at 150 WHP on a Dynojet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
For reference, a stock car makes about 145whp at the @Elite Performance dyno.

You can extrapolate 218whp to be 296 crank hp, based on their dyno, which is pretty solid. Not perfect math, but its based on known results. Pretty solid for 91 octane. Also note that this is tuned by Eric at Elite, not the CARB tune.

Supporting mods, if any, are unknown.
@ATaraxias this is the dyno you've been whining about
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Old 04-26-2016, 01:26 PM   #292
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Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel for @Mr_YUzU_FRS.





E60 tune:
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:22 PM   #293
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Neat stuff from @moto-mike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto-mike View Post
We've had a chance to revisit the Stage II equipped car with the GTX2971 this week. As this turbo is much bigger than the one in the kit, the included 2.25" piping on the inlet side can be improved. With very mild trimming (fuse box cover) we managed to fit a full 3" mandrel bent intake going to the Perrin 3" intake!



You can definitely tell that top end has improved dramatically, we even had to pull 20% of wastegate duty cycle to bring the boost back to where it was. On the included turbo you really don't need this, but we wanted to show that you can in fact fit a 3" intake on to this setup with just a bit of work.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:59 PM   #294
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Just curious, but what does the ambient vs intake temp typically look like?
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