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Old 11-21-2021, 11:13 AM   #1
matt88
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Stock pwm fuel pump controller capacity, max current throughput etc

Does anyone know what the limits are on the stock pwm fuel pump controller in our machines?

I'm talking maximum current throughput at 100% pwm duty cycle, or max wattage rating etc?

I'm dropping in a GM 65psi 250 lph fuel pump assembly from a Camaro Zl1 on my swap and just want to make sure the stock controller is up to the task.

I haven't tested the pump for current as my meter only goes to 10 amps and don't want to risk it but from what I'm seeing online it looks like the pump should be somewhere around 16-17 amps max at 13.5v.
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Old 11-21-2021, 11:27 AM   #2
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I don't have your answer but I guess ask why you're bothering with the fuel pump swap. The stock fuel pump is big enough for a stock power LS engine. And there are multiple fuel pump upgrades on the market that drop into the stock basket

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Old 11-21-2021, 11:57 AM   #3
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The pump/hanger assembly is cheap and easily found.
And because I'm making a completely new tank from aluminium.
And because there will be zero doubts as to whether or not it will be suitable for my application.
And because I want to.
And because I'm weird and like a good challenge.
And because the stock supply/return regulator built into the stock hanger is a bottleneck for pressure/flow, as far as I know.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:23 PM   #4
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The pump/hanger assembly is cheap and easily found.
And because I'm making a completely new tank from aluminium.
And because there will be zero doubts as to whether or not it will be suitable for my application.
And because I want to.
And because I'm weird and like a good challenge.
And because the stock supply/return regulator built into the stock hanger is a bottleneck for pressure/flow, as far as I know.
I have an LS3 in mine. No issues with upgraded pump, stock FP regulator

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Old 11-21-2021, 08:02 PM   #5
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Removing the stock regulator from the hanger assembly, showing it to suppliers, none of them are able to provide a replacement regulator in the same packaging that provides 58 psi and 250 lph flow.

The best they said they could do was 3 bar, 44 psi and 190 lph flow.

Sure, perhaps that is actually enough to still work in our application and yes, awesome that you're able to make it work in your application without issue. Not arguing with you there.

It's just my ocd that tells me no amount of oversized pump within the stock assembly could overcome the limitations of a stock regulator so instead of trying to fight it, considering I'm making a new tank anyway, and considering you can get an entirely new assembly with pump and built in regulator to suit for $250 then why not just remove all doubt and replace the whole damn thing. In the future if something of it fails, it will be easy enough to pop the tank access hole under the seat and just replace the whole unit again quite easily and cheaply.

A number of us also go to the extent of installing surge tanks with high capacity pumps that can meet the instantaneous fuel needs of the LS, and I'm confident some of that decision is likely because of the limitations of the stock regulator built into the hanger not being able to supply 4 bar at a high flow rate. I don't want to have a surge tank elsewhere in my car, so as I am fabricating a whole new tank, why not, right from the outset, gift it with a fuel pump assembly that is totally fit for purpose. If I design the baffles correctly and perhaps also load it with some foam, I should surely be making a great effort towards solving the fuel supply piece of the puzzle and be making something that performs just as well as any aftermarket surge tank stapled in to the stock tank setup can.

Anyway that's my thought process. I'm probably wrong. And probably wasting money. But that's the way I'd like to tackle it. And as I am currently working on my pwm radiator fan controller solution, I thought "hmmm I better do the fuel pump too at the same time" because hey its basically the same thing just in a different part of the car and for a slightly different use.
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Old 11-21-2021, 08:15 PM   #6
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Removing the stock regulator from the hanger assembly, showing it to suppliers, none of them are able to provide a replacement regulator in the same packaging that provides 58 psi and 250 lph flow.

The best they said they could do was 3 bar, 44 psi and 190 lph flow.

Sure, perhaps that is actually enough to still work in our application and yes, awesome that you're able to make it work in your application without issue. Not arguing with you there.

It's just my ocd that tells me no amount of oversized pump within the stock assembly could overcome the limitations of a stock regulator so instead of trying to fight it, considering I'm making a new tank anyway, and considering you can get an entirely new assembly with pump and built in regulator to suit for $250 then why not just remove all doubt and replace the whole damn thing. In the future if something of it fails, it will be easy enough to pop the tank access hole under the seat and just replace the whole unit again quite easily and cheaply.

A number of us also go to the extent of installing surge tanks with high capacity pumps that can meet the instantaneous fuel needs of the LS, and I'm confident some of that decision is likely because of the limitations of the stock regulator built into the hanger not being able to supply 4 bar at a high flow rate. I don't want to have a surge tank elsewhere in my car, so as I am fabricating a whole new tank, why not, right from the outset, gift it with a fuel pump assembly that is totally fit for purpose. If I design the baffles correctly and perhaps also load it with some foam, I should surely be making a great effort towards solving the fuel supply piece of the puzzle and be making something that performs just as well as any aftermarket surge tank stapled in to the stock tank setup can.

Anyway that's my thought process. I'm probably wrong. And probably wasting money. But that's the way I'd like to tackle it. And as I am currently working on my pwm radiator fan controller solution, I thought "hmmm I better do the fuel pump too at the same time" because hey its basically the same thing just in a different part of the car and for a slightly different use.
The LS engine or more accurately the fuel injectors, can't function properly at 44psi. But the stock fuel pressure regulator does output 60psi at any GPM/LPH. Just because aftermarket companies can't match it doesn't mean that it's not doing it. As far as a surge tank is concerned: if you're building a fuel tank, you could simply build your surge tank into it, so it's all internal. Generally surge tanks use a fuel pump to stay full, which only requires a very small fuel pump. And then a second pump to generate fuel pressure. This second pump needs to be sized for the motor. Or you could bypass the stock regulator somehow and use an external one.

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Old 11-21-2021, 09:21 PM   #7
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Hopefully my awesome baffles and foam setup combined with the in-basket regulator doing it's supply/return function continuously with a ZL1 pump is going to be as close to a surge style solution as I can get, whilst keeping it simple with a one pump, in-tank setup.

Anyhow I think I'm going to replace the stock pump controller anyway. I've just realised that I'll need one for my beach buggy build (I have a VW chassis and was planning to use my FA20 and as much of the Subaru setup as I could in that).

I'd still like to know what the stock controller can handle though, if anyone has an idea. Of course I could take it out and keep loading it up until it fails and work it out myself, but why destroy it with testing if someone else already knows?

Thanks for your input on pump ideas.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt88 View Post
Hopefully my awesome baffles and foam setup combined with the in-basket regulator doing it's supply/return function continuously with a ZL1 pump is going to be as close to a surge style solution as I can get, whilst keeping it simple with a one pump, in-tank setup.

Anyhow I think I'm going to replace the stock pump controller anyway. I've just realised that I'll need one for my beach buggy build (I have a VW chassis and was planning to use my FA20 and as much of the Subaru setup as I could in that).

I'd still like to know what the stock controller can handle though, if anyone has an idea. Of course I could take it out and keep loading it up until it fails and work it out myself, but why destroy it with testing if someone else already knows?

Thanks for your input on pump ideas.
If you're running a return system you'll need to bypass the stock fuel pump controller

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Old 11-22-2021, 05:06 PM   #9
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Stock fuel pump controller will run a hellcat pump. I think I am around 65 psi fuel pressure.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:19 PM   #10
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Stock pwm fuel pump controller capacity, max current throughput etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt88 View Post
Hopefully my awesome baffles and foam setup combined with the in-basket regulator doing it's supply/return function continuously with a ZL1 pump is going to be as close to a surge style solution as I can get, whilst keeping it simple with a one pump, in-tank setup.



Anyhow I think I'm going to replace the stock pump controller anyway. I've just realised that I'll need one for my beach buggy build (I have a VW chassis and was planning to use my FA20 and as much of the Subaru setup as I could in that).



I'd still like to know what the stock controller can handle though, if anyone has an idea. Of course I could take it out and keep loading it up until it fails and work it out myself, but why destroy it with testing if someone else already knows?



Thanks for your input on pump ideas.


Stock fuel pump controllers are cheap used on ebay. There is no rating of any kind anywhere I can see on any of the components. It has a huge heat sink on the back. Just send it.

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Old 11-22-2021, 10:42 PM   #11
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Stock fuel pump controllers are cheap used on ebay. There is no rating of any kind anywhere I can see on any of the components. It has a huge heat sink on the back. Just send it.

Brilliant! Thank you.

Might get one and load it up with a good 20 amp load for a few hours and see if it survives.
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:01 AM   #12
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Brilliant! Thank you.

Might get one and load it up with a good 20 amp load for a few hours and see if it survives.
That would be alot of wideopen, 24h lemans?
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:18 AM   #13
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That would be alot of wideopen, 24h lemans?
Hehe yeah I guess!

My thinking is that if my pump is going to use circa 16-17 Amps at full speed and I add an extra 20% (thus my 20 amp idea) and the controller can survive this for say two hours straight then surely in real world use it will survive.

And if it doesn't survive, I'd rather know this and solve it now. I'm already on the path to pwm control of my rad fans, so a little extra work on this part is not a whole lot of additional work.
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:41 PM   #14
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Hehe yeah I guess!

My thinking is that if my pump is going to use circa 16-17 Amps at full speed and I add an extra 20% (thus my 20 amp idea) and the controller can survive this for say two hours straight then surely in real world use it will survive.

And if it doesn't survive, I'd rather know this and solve it now. I'm already on the path to pwm control of my rad fans, so a little extra work on this part is not a whole lot of additional work.
I think a jeep and a chysler mini van has a heavy duty pwm fan controller, replacements are on ebay with the connector.
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