New BRZ vs Z

[Sport-Tech]

Vehicle size can also be a key element in determining engagement with a particular car. I was all set to get a CTR, until I test drove a Civic Si. Its massive dimensions for what is supposedly a compact car dealt a death blow to my interest in that CTR. It just felt huge on the road, which made it far less engaging, despite its many strengths.

[Ernest72]

There may also be a NA vs turbo feel difference as well. People love the cayman and GT3 because the NA drive feel. Many hated the 718 T4 because of sound and feel despite it having excellent performance.

Owning both an 04 WRX and 16 BRZ I like both feels for sure, but on a really twisty road the BRZ feels better. As a DD both are fine for me, but I rarely get to see high rpms in the WRX because in DD I rarely have a chance to go 90-100 mph. So one of the benefits of a low powered car is hitting those higher rpms and getting that sound feedback of a good exhaust without immediately going to jail or killing my self.

[blackhawkdown]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

There may also be a NA vs turbo feel difference as well. People love the cayman and GT3 because the NA drive feel. Many hated the 718 T4 because of sound and feel despite it having excellent performance.

Owning both an 04 WRX and 16 BRZ I like both feels for sure, but on a really twisty road the BRZ feels better. As a DD both are fine for me, but I rarely get to see high rpms in the WRX because in DD I rarely have a chance to go 90-100 mph. So one of the benefits of a low powered car is hitting those higher rpms and getting that sound feedback of a good exhaust without immediately going to jail or killing my self.

You nailed it. That is why when it comes to mechanical feeling, I prefer my RSX-S over my Supra. I still prefer to DD my RSX-S over my Wrx.


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[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Vehicle size can also be a key element in determining engagement with a particular car. I was all set to get a CTR, until I test drove a Civic Si. Its massive dimensions for what is supposedly a compact car dealt a death blow to my interest in that CTR. It just felt huge on the road, which made it far less engaging, despite its many strengths.

I think cabin space and even looks help to exaggerate this. The current Corolla rivals the Civic in size, yet appears puny inside and out. It's longer and taller, but not as wide.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

His point is more narrow - are they engaging on mundane commutes etc. under normal, traffic-burdened conditions? There are a number of folks over on Miata.net who find driving their Miatas far more engaging at such times than piloting the high performance machinery they previously owned was under the same conditions, just to cite one data source.

That said, personally I would like the experience of owning a high-performance car at least once in my life, and the new Z has me interested...

Walking an SS 1LE sideways up an onramp is plenty engaging.

Originally Posted by ZDan

No, been driven around but haven't driven one. "Engaging" means different things to different people. I've been in and driven enough cars on the street and at the track to know pretty much what I like. Even a 3050 lb. 987 Cayman felt dense and heavyish to me. Camaro, Mustang, they're just not for me. Ideally I'd have a shorter-wheelbase, lighter-weight 2-seat FT86 for my street car. And a ~1000-lb single-seat track car

Man you backpedal like an NFL cornerback. I don't know why this community is so good at stating things like they are fact, when in fact, they have no experience with them.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Walking an SS 1LE sideways up an onramp is plenty engaging.

And also stupid. I had plenty of fun sliding my 6.8 LS3 FD around racetracks. Never felt the urge to slide it up an onramp tho...

Man you backpedal like an NFL cornerback. I don't know why this community is so good at stating things like they are fact, when in fact, they have no experience with them.

Don't see where I was "backpedalling"...

Like I said, I have *plenty* of experience in a wide variety of cars as a track instructor, and yes, I am pretty good at correlating what I feel from the passenger seat to what I feel from the drivers seat. Big heavy cars, are not for me. Dunno what's such a big deal about that, people have different tastes after all.

[RZNT4R]

The Taycan I drove yesterday was pretty cool.

I don't give a shit about how ultimately fast a car is, I always say that I bought my 205 hp bastard impreza shitbox after driving a Nismo GT-R and being dismayed at how useless all that power was in a daily driver setting. The Taycan was the only modern "high power" car I've driven that didn't make me long for my little beater because the taycan made everything feel easy, even driving 35 in suburbia with one finger on the wheel, which is what driving is 97% of the time is for me, and making driving feel easy and fun is what the 86 platform is best at. Just last week, 997 Carrera, sure, it felt tactile and engaging like the little pseudoyota, but it was annoying to drive slow. A lot of these high power cars are annoying to drive slow and can hardly be used to even a significant fraction of their potential in everyday driving and sacrifice too much usability for the sake of that unusable speed.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

The Taycan I drove yesterday was pretty cool.

I don't give a shit about how ultimately fast a car is, I always say that I bought my 205 hp bastard impreza shitbox after driving a Nismo GT-R and being dismayed at how useless all that power was in a daily driver setting. The Taycan was the only modern "high power" car I've driven that didn't make me long for my little beater because the taycan made everything feel easy, even driving 35 in suburbia with one finger on the wheel, which is what driving is 97% of the time is for me, and making driving feel easy and fun is what the 86 platform is best at. Just last week, 997 Carrera, sure, it felt tactile and engaging like the little pseudoyota, but it was annoying to drive slow. A lot of these high power cars are annoying to drive slow and can hardly be used to even a significant fraction of their potential in everyday driving and sacrifice too much usability for the sake of that unusable speed.

I assume you're talking about 2dr sportscars primarily, which the Taycan is not. There is a very good reason the Taycan is more comfortable and easy to drive than everything else.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by shiumai

That's for sure, and here are three different examples. My C8, a friend's ZL1 1LE, which blurs the lines between a straight line muscle car and a track monster, and another friend's Alfa Romeo 4C, which shares more with the BRZ/86 than the other two. I think that driving any one of these cars can be very engaging, depending on what you're doing, and in different ways. I'm sure that most here will pick the 4C. It's a sweet set up for sure - his is set up more for the track than the street.

I'm the most you speak of on here.. I love the idea of a baby supercar looking and feeling sports car. I even wish your C8 was about 10 inches shorter and 300lb+ lighter because I love the C8 styling despite many who hate it.

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I assume you're talking about 2dr sportscars primarily, which the Taycan is not. There is a very good reason the Taycan is more comfortable and easy to drive than everything else.

I'm talking about the unending quest for performance, and how worthless it all is.

Yes the Taycan has performance, but it sacrifices n o t h i n g for it, at 30 between stop signs, it feels like a perfectly normal car that would gently do your bidding 365 days a year in sun, rain or snow wether you were running errands (in fact this was a winter driven car that did just that), trashing it on a twisty road or cruising to the ice cream bar on a sunday afternoon. You sit in it and it's surprisingly ergonomic and intuitive, you don't second guess any of your inputs, the car just executes your wishes. That's what makes it an exceptional car, not the performance.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

I'm talking about the unending quest for performance, and how worthless it all is.

Yes the Taycan has performance, but it sacrifices n o t h i n g for it, at 30 between stop signs, it feels like a perfectly normal car that would gently do your bidding 365 days a year in sun, rain or snow wether you were running errands (in fact this was a winter driven car that did just that), trashing it on a twisty road or cruising to the ice cream bar on a sunday afternoon. You sit in it and it's surprisingly ergonomic and intuitive, you don't second guess any of your inputs, the car just executes your wishes. That's what makes it an exceptional car, not the performance.

The Taycan is nearly 5000 lbs... not sure it's as perfect as your making it out to be, maybe for your needs.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

The Taycan is nearly 5000 lbs... not sure it's as perfect as your making it out to be, maybe for your needs.

But all that weight's down low!

[dhuang]

Originally Posted by shiumai

I'm sure that most here will pick the 4C...

That's what I did.

In stock form, it is a flawed car at the limit.

With the BRZ, I've always been able to control that car at the limit. Not the case with the Alfa... luckily suspension tweaks do address some of the core issues (similar to the AP1 S2k).

However if you drive at 6-7/10th's, it is one of the most engaging / rewarding / sensational cars that exist for the driver for under $200k.

Unlike other modern & capable sports cars, I don't have to be going 80+ mph to relish in the 4C's liveliness and character.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

But all that weight's down low!

A lot of my own personal weight is also 'down low' in my fat ass, but that doesn't give me good handling around the curves.