FR-S/BRZ vs Toyota FT1

[TylerLieberman]

Comparing a 25k sports car to a higher end sports car that doesn't exist nor has any specifications.

Seems legit

[vh_supra26]

I believe a production version of the FT-1 will be between $50k-$60k. How do we know? Because two Toyota officials have hinted at that price range.

[vh_supra26]

For Alex Shen, studio chief designer at Toyota's Calty Design Research in Newport Beach, California, the words describing the sports car's styling concept came first -- words like "sexy," "honest," "organic," "kick-ass." Followed by proportions -- front/mid-engine, rear drive, just the right scale. And a wild guess at price -- maybe $60,000? "It's a Toyota," says Shen. "It ought to be affordable." Only then did lines start to appear.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/con...pt_first_look/

Calty's starting point was to design a sports car with a theoretical $50,000-$60,000 price tag, Hunter said. That meant designing something wild, but not so exotic that it pushed the car into the territory that would make it a Lexus.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...s-car-concept#

[vh_supra26]

Toyota hasn't been that tight lips about there products. They have in the past also dropped hints, clues, and "leaks" to the media.

Lets start with the twins.

In 2008 it was reported that the Toyota/Subaru car would be sold as a Scion in the US.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...s-scion-in-u-s

In 2009 it was reported that it would cost $25k and have 200hp.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-ft-86-concept

A V8 hybrid Lexus SC replacement was hinted two years before before the LF-LC debut.

In 2010 it was reported a LC is in the works that will take place of the SC.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/12/l...brid-super-co/

Now the new "Supra".

In late 2011, MotorTrend reported a Supra successor was in the works and that it will take styling cues from the FT-HS.

http://wot.motortrend.com/we-hear-ne...id-145159.html

Late 2012 Tada-San teases us about a new Supra in the works.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/toy...-24?imageNo=01

A few months later Tada-San said Akio told us "the president (Akio Toyoda) has asked me to make a successor to the Supra as soon as possible."

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=1&tID=190913

Late last year AutoBlog was the only one to say a Supra successor was coming to Detroit.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/06/t...oit-auto-show/

[Whitigir]

50-60k will be Steep, but hey...at least Toyota is answering to the Enthusiasts, especially those Die-hard Supra fan, or Fan Boys Day Dreamers...including me, who had no chance to actually own one.

Now 15 years later, I finally have a chance.....even though it may cost me a small fortune, but hey...I only live one. Why keep on dreaming of something you can attain with 1 stretch of an arm ? You should never stretch though, but hey....for once....I would make an exception

[vh_supra26]

I think a $50k+ Supra is reasonable. That is the same price range as the C7.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by JustBoostin

Is this not the second version of this concept? Looks a hell of a lot like the FT-HS. This would make me happy considering they kept the 86 pretty damn close to the ft86 II concept.

Some of the design cues are similar, but no. FT-1 is alot bigger than FT-HS. If anything FT-HS is closer to the size of the twins.

Toyota FT-1 (GT6)
Length: 184.05 in
Width: 77.55 in
Height: 48.22 in
Wheelbase: 107.87 in

Toyota FT-HS
Length: 170.27 in
Width: 73.23 in
Height: 50.79 in
Wheelbase: 104.33 in

Toyota 86
Length: 166.9 in
Width: 69.9 in
Height: 50.6 in
Wheelbase 101.2 in

[Celica00]

So excited for this. Even if it is priced the same as the corvette, i'd personally choose it over the C7 as long as it has the name. Supra just sounds sexy.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by Celica00

So excited for this. Even if it is priced the same as the corvette, i'd personally choose it over the C7 as long as it has the name. Supra just sounds sexy.

Exactly. If price was everything, the answer would always be "V6 Mustang"
I think that even priced above the C7, the Supra would be a hit (as long as it doesn't clear GTR territory) - there will always be a segment of drivers who don't want to buy a muscle car (even one as polished as the Corvette).

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

I think a $50k+ Supra is reasonable. That is the same price range as the C7.

I've said this before but I just don't understand the marketing strategy here. You have the FRS at $25-30k and then this FT-1 at $50-60k. So you get the buyers into the brand with the FRS and then expect them to turn around in 5 years after their cars are paid off and expect them to trade in for a car that cost twice as much?


Where is the stepping stone car? Something that splits the difference priced around 38-42k that gives FRS owners a car to move up to after they trade in. From there 5 years down the road they should be well enough off to start looking at the $50k+ FT-1/Supra.


Are there FRS owners that could immediately jump into the FT-1? Sure but they aren't the majority of owners.


Toyota has been adamant about wanting a 3 sports car line up and we've all assumed the third one will be a sub-FT-86. But the FRS is already a $25k car, how low can they actually go $20k? I think they would be better served leaving the twins as the entry level car and building a middle model aimed at the 370Z successor/V8 Mustang (assuming the FT-1 will be competing against Vettes and Porsches)




and VH I'm not picking on your posts or stalking you... it's just you always post the same type of things I'm thinking about. cheers

[Ashybone]

*****DISCLAIMER*****
Before I post, I would like to saw, I see the error of my ways and I no longer think this... But when I first saw the FT-1 I thought to myself......


But after looking at them together. Hell no. Completely different. I still think they need to give the FT-1 a mouth and get rid of that big ass nose.

Other than that, I agree with the other person that said their probably going to drop a BMW inline 6 into this car and turbo charge it. Let's be honest, anything else just wouldn't be a Supra.

Last, I think the sub car below the 86 twins is going to more based on the MR-2. Those cars were tiny yet sexy plus rear wheel drive. As an 86 owner I gotta admit, it'll be nice to bully a lil brother car that isn't a tC or one of the other ugly ass scions.

[switchlanez]

At the 1:08:39 mark of this video, there is a roundtable discussion about car design between FT-1 designers and the creator of Gran Turismo. Not much talk about the FT-1 itself but it can be seen in the background. Less than 20 min before that point is a sequence with the BRZ.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/585548

[GirlRepellent]

Sure, I’m excited for the FT-1 but I think the price point will be key to its success. If this is the BMW/Toyota collaboration expect to see an N54/N55 and possibly hybrid. Site the 335i Hybrid for reference. I don’t think Japan domestically has the same kind of enthusiasm for this car as we do. Keep it priced reasonably Toyota. Nissan dropped the MSRP on the 370Z by like $3,000.00 in the last year or so. And the IDx might be happening.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

I've said this before but I just don't understand the marketing strategy here. You have the FRS at $25-30k and then this FT-1 at $50-60k. So you get the buyers into the brand with the FRS and then expect them to turn around in 5 years after their cars are paid off and expect them to trade in for a car that cost twice as much?

Where is the stepping stone car? Something that splits the difference priced around 38-42k that gives FRS owners a car to move up to after they trade in. From there 5 years down the road they should be well enough off to start looking at the $50k+ FT-1/Supra.

Are there FRS owners that could immediately jump into the FT-1? Sure but they aren't the majority of owners.

Toyota has been adamant about wanting a 3 sports car line up and we've all assumed the third one will be a sub-FT-86. But the FRS is already a $25k car, how low can they actually go $20k? I think they would be better served leaving the twins as the entry level car and building a middle model aimed at the 370Z successor/V8 Mustang (assuming the FT-1 will be competing against Vettes and Porsches)

and VH I'm not picking on your posts or stalking you... it's just you always post the same type of things I'm thinking about. cheers

Lol

Yeah I understand people want something to bridge the price gap if you will. But I don't think a $20k price gap is all that big. Nissan has a much larger price gap between the 370z and GT-R.

I'm just saying a $50k-$60k FT-1/Supra is more affordable than a $100k+ GT-R and will probably be more successful as well. Also we making an assumption that FR-S owners will trade in their cars after 5 years to buy a FT-1/Supra.

A another solution for FR-S owners to obtain a FT-1/Supra is to don't get married and have kids :p

To me it seems that Nissan is pulling back with the next Z. The $30k-$40k segment is mostly made up of American Muscle cars. It doesn't make sense to enter that market to only get killed by the V8 Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger.

Tada-san has said the 3rd sports car will be smaller and cheaper than the FR-S. It also seems that the price of the FR-S is climbing just a bit every year. Not to mention the special editions.

Current reports have it that Toyota and BMW are working on the next Z4. I would only think that Toyota or Lexus would get their own version as well.

This is how I see things playing out. Nothing really overlaps this way.

Sub 86 car: $20k+
86/FRS: $25k-$30k
BMW/Toyota(Lexus): $40k range
RC350: $45k
FT-1/Supra: $50k-$60k
RC-F: $70k
LC: $100k+

Originally Posted by GirlRepellent

Sure, I’m excited for the FT-1 but I think the price point will be key to its success. If this is the BMW/Toyota collaboration expect to see an N54/N55 and possibly hybrid. Site the 335i Hybrid for reference. I don’t think Japan domestically has the same kind of enthusiasm for this car as we do. Keep it priced reasonably Toyota. Nissan dropped the MSRP on the 370Z by like $3,000.00 in the last year or so. And the IDx might be happening.

I think the name alone will sale the car.

Nope, doesn't appear to be the BMW/Toyota sports car. The size of the FT-1 is very similar to the Lexus RC. Not official but that would suggest that it will underpin the RC. But that doesn't mean Toyota won't lease BMW's I6

Again, pricing this car in the $30k+ range will have to much competition with the American Muscle cars. But at $50k the only true competitor will be the C7. Plus the old MK4 was consider to be the "Japanese Corvette", so why not do the same with a MK5