VSC Sport, Trac Off, Both Off - Which do you use for normal driving?

[Vracer111]

I just want to add the VSC and ABS system has absolutely no idea what to do ON TRACK if you leave it in Sport mode and have actual sticky tires mounted....very annoying having ABS going off (or more precisely trying to go off while not really doing anything but pumping the pedals for effect only because the tires have at no point come close to loosing grip...) and engine cutting out a little screwing up corner exit speeds. With everything off the car brakes better and handles better. Does the same thing on the street to a much much lesser extent. But there is a difference you can feel between everything off and the systems on if you are in tune with the chassis and it has nothing to do with being even remotely close to driving recklessly on the road. It has everything to do with how the car is communicating with you... I want as free, and pure a communication from the car as possible verses artificial barrier's/filters which take some of it's soul/character away. It is a tangible difference you can feel after taking you first turn from a stop...and is the difference between being one with the car and just driving the car.

[pinoyplaya]

Originally Posted by TSY

No, it's the lack of hp that prevented you from accelerating.

But seriously, the TCS kicking in was probably because you were about to spin your rear wheels and you wouldn't be accelerating anyway. Either that or because you hit the rev limiter.

I think because it spun. I was in 2nd gear just after shifting when the TCS light came on. I thought it was the CEL light at first and scared the crap outta me.

[bucket]

Originally Posted by TSY

No, it's the lack of hp that prevented you from accelerating.

But seriously, the TCS kicking in was probably because you were about to spin your rear wheels and you wouldn't be accelerating anyway. Either that or because you hit the rev limiter.

So for everybody except for 25 Year Driving Instructor Guy, this should be the most relevant statement. If you're driving around with everything on and the nanny intervenes, then you were most likely over-driving. Sure, you probably wouldn't have crashed, but you also were not driving optimally...try taking that corner again without triggering VSC. If you feel that the electronic aids are an insult to your Driving God Ego, then think of them as a cup full of water that makes you drive just like Takumi.

[TSY]

Originally Posted by brzltd

Toyota GT 86 Traction Control Demonstration

This is a nice video. The second run with the VSC on sport allows a little oversteer before intervening. Also the fastest run through the slalom of the 3 modes.

The slowest? The runs with the VSC off. Doing donuts doesn't help lap times. At higher speeds that guy would be off in the weeds- or up a tree.

[RedLeader]

Really people? TC and VSC are gonna make a difference if you get into an accident? My last car got totaled because someone ran a red light and T-Boned me doing 40mph (because the cops couldn't prove she was going any faster). Traction control wouldn't have done a damn thing. So please, before you go ahead and get self righteous on anyone who thinks about turning the electro-nannies off, step off your soap box and think about it for a minute. The nannies are designed to keep a retarded monkey from doing burnouts, and to give you more traction on slippery/sandy roads.

Now I'LL step off MY soapbox


Sent from...somewhere?

[cgrey]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

Really people? TC and VSC are gonna make a difference if you get into an accident? My last car got totaled because someone ran a red light and T-Boned me doing 40mph (because the cops couldn't prove she was going any faster).

Unrelated to the present discussion.

No one is saying VSC prevents all accidents. Is it your position that since it is possible to crash with system switched on, VSC is incapable of preventing or assisting in the prevention of accidents?

[TSY]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

The nannies are designed to keep a retarded monkey from doing burnouts, and to give you more traction on slippery/sandy roads.

Well, I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion, as is everyone here.

But here are some quotes from the IIHS and NHTSA (pretty sure they are safety experts):

"NHTSA estimates electronic stability control is going to save 5,300 to 9,600 lives and prevent 156,000 to 238,000 injuries in all types of crashes annually."

"IIHS states that about half of the fatal passenger vehicle crashes that occur each year involve a single vehicle. The IIHS says equipping vehicles with stability control can reduce the risk of involvement in these crashes by nearly 50 percent. It may also reduce the risk of rollovers by more than 70 percent."

I'm not saying we shouldn't have fun with our cars. If you want boring transportation buy a Camry. But setting the car's VSC in sport mode instead of shutting it totally off will probably not limit fun at all on city streets and may save people (some of us?) from ending up in a tree or worse.

[MmmHamSandwich]

I can't judge the twin's traction and stability programs since I haven't really tested them, but I will say both are pretty damn bad on my Si. They make the car unpredictable and in some conditions actually cause a loss of control that otherwise wouldn't have occurred with these programs turned off which I've tested a decent amount on closed courses.

I like having it as an option, mostly to assist in climbing slippery surfaces but other than that it is off. Fortunately tapping it once will toggle the system, unlike these new cars where you have to hold the damn button down

.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by cgrey

Unrelated to the present discussion.

No one is saying VSC prevents all accidents. Is it your position that since it is possible to crash with system switched on, VSC is incapable of preventing or assisting in the prevention of accidents?

Thats actually not at all what I said, thank you for attempting to take my comment to the extreme opposite of the original argument.

My position is that VSC and traction control are not magical anti-crash devices, and having them is no replacement for proper car control. In many cases, the TC and VSC can cause a dangerous loss of power in an emergency situation (yes, there are times when using the throttle instead of the brakes can prevent an accident). The modern driver has become too dependent on driver control aids at the expense of actually learning car control, situational awareness, crash avoidance techniques, and simple common sense. The whole attitude of "VSC and TS should never be turned off on city streets" is a product of most drivers being incapable of controlling a car in anything but straight line travel.

And no, I don't believe the IIHS and NHTSA are "safety experts." The IIHS is operated by insurance companies (its in the title people) which are made up primarily of lawyers. The NHTSA is a government agency tasked with making sure American drivers are safer; because that's what the government is for right? Making sure we're all safe from ourselves.

These two institutions are run by lawyers, and lawyers are no safety experts, they are there to keep the people they represent from being sued. That may sound cynical, but take a look at the majority of US traffic "safety features" and how their use has been 'mandated.' A few people have even said it here "the black box crash data would show that you had TC/VSC off when you spun out into another driver, so you'd be at fault in an accident" and "I would have to think that even a pre-law student could just utterly slam you if you got into an accident and were found to have disabled driver aids, particularly in a sportscar."

There, THAT is my position, now please don't try to put words in my mouth, yours taste like asshole, I can put shitty words there myself.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by TSY

Well, I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion, as is everyone here.

But here are some quotes from the IIHS and NHTSA (pretty sure they are safety experts):

"NHTSA estimates electronic stability control is going to save 5,300 to 9,600 lives and prevent 156,000 to 238,000 injuries in all types of crashes annually."

"IIHS states that about half of the fatal passenger vehicle crashes that occur each year involve a single vehicle. The IIHS says equipping vehicles with stability control can reduce the risk of involvement in these crashes by nearly 50 percent. It may also reduce the risk of rollovers by more than 70 percent."

I'm not saying we shouldn't have fun with our cars. If you want boring transportation buy a Camry. But setting the car's VSC in sport mode instead of shutting it totally off will probably not limit fun at all on city streets and may save people (some of us?) from ending up in a tree or worse.

You're wasting your breath. You're never going to change the minds of the hammer heads who are convinced they are the greatest drivers in the world...

Disclaimer: I'm sure there are some very good drivers here who probably are safe turning the nannies off. But the majority of the posters here are simply delusional...and unfortunately they'll probably have to learn that the hard way...

[cgrey]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

Thats actually not at all what I said, thank you for attempting to take my comment to the extreme opposite of the original argument.

My position is that VSC and traction control are not magical anti-crash devices, and having them is no replacement for proper car control. In many cases, the TC and VSC can cause a dangerous loss of power in an emergency situation (yes, there are times when using the throttle instead of the brakes can prevent an accident). The modern driver has become too dependent on driver control aids at the expense of actually learning car control, situational awareness, crash avoidance techniques, and simple common sense. The whole attitude of "VSC and TS should never be turned off on city streets" is a product of most drivers being incapable of controlling a car in anything but straight line travel.

And no, I don't believe the IIHS and NHTSA are "safety experts." The IIHS is operated by insurance companies (its in the title people) which are made up primarily of lawyers. The NHTSA is a government agency tasked with making sure American drivers are safer; because that's what the government is for right? Making sure we're all safe from ourselves.

These two institutions are run by lawyers, and lawyers are no safety experts, they are there to keep the people they represent from being sued. That may sound cynical, but take a look at the majority of US traffic "safety features" and how their use has been 'mandated.' A few people have even said it here "the black box crash data would show that you had TC/VSC off when you spun out into another driver, so you'd be at fault in an accident" and "I would have to think that even a pre-law student could just utterly slam you if you got into an accident and were found to have disabled driver aids, particularly in a sportscar."

There, THAT is my position, now please don't try to put words in my mouth, yours taste like asshole, I can put shitty words there myself.

You're a moron, but I'll help anyway:

There, THAT is my position, now please don't try to put words in my mouth, yours taste like asshole, I can put shitty words there myself.

-Your inability to understand your own argument is somewhat frightening. I didn't put those words in your mouth. You did. They let people like you vote. Think about that.

TC and VSC are gonna make a difference if you get into an accident?

-Yes, they may help retain control in some accidents. Additionally they may prevent many accidents to begin with. That's why people suggest leaving them engaged. The entire point of this thread.

My last car got totaled because someone ran a red light and T-Boned me doing 40mph

-Unrelated. You went out of your way to pick an example that suits your desire to leave the TC/VSC off. Good for you? You do not require our approval. Go drive off a cliff and see if I give a flying fuck.

Traction control wouldn't have done a damn thing.

-Point? How does this relate to the accident prevention abilities of TC/VSC as discussed in this thread?

So please, before you go ahead and get self righteous on anyone who thinks about turning the electro-nannies off, step off your soap box and think about it for a minute.

-Hundreds of people who think they're Ricky Racer, like yourself, will go out and shut them off and try to "drive" and wreck their car. Hopefully they will only injure their car, or at worst, themselves. And not other road users.

The nannies are designed to keep a retarded monkey from doing burnouts, and to give you more traction on slippery/sandy roads.

-Your reading comprehension and powers of imagination fail to impress.

Now I'LL step off MY soapbox

-Open the box and use the soap for the benefit of us all.


I might say you're arguing from ignorance except you wouldn't understand what it meant and in addition you seem too ignorant to understand your own argument.

[RedLeader]

I never said that VSC is incapable of assisting in the prevention of accidents, so you did put those words there, not me. My ORIGINAL point was that people who attack others for daring to turn the nannies off, as you have done to me, should get off their soapbox and realize that said nannies aren't perfect, nor are you perfect, preaching from your pulpit of driving lordship.

But you're more than welcome to attack me instead of facing the fact of what I actually said: Traction control is not a magical anti-crash device. Does it keep some people from getting into certain kinds of accidents? Yes. Does it keep most people from getting themselves into situations where they could wreck? Yes. Does shutting it off on public roads increase your likelihood of certain types of accidents? Sure. Do the people that turn traction control off on public roads all think they're ricky-racer? No. Please stop demonizing people who turn SOME of the driving aids off, it makes you looks foolish.

There are diehards in both camps, but the beauty of the system is: you can do whatever you want to with it, if you screw up, you get to pay the consequences.

And while you're making wild assumptions about my driving skill or habits, I'll let you in on a little secret. I leave all the nannies on because my commute is on boring straight city roads, and I haven't had this car long enough to get used to how it handles yet.

But I'm just a teenage boy-racer who doesn't know how to drive and is more likely to spin out and crash into other cars on the road because I have no self-control and am a danger to all other motorists, so I wash my hands of this discussion.

[JiB]

Originally Posted by pinoyplaya

Do you guys just drive without any of these features turned off during normal driving or do you turn off one or both?

I drive with VSC sport mode on pretty much all the time, i wouldnt do it if it felt unsafe. i have tried to slide out with it on and its just impossible.

I cant speak for automatic transmission but in MT with no buttons pushed, and taking a corner while accelerating out of a corner is painful, power cutting out is ridiculously frustrating... atleast with vsc on, its less harsh

[whateatsrabbits]

VSC can save your ass I remember driving my 91 240sx and the roads were moist. I was driving along casually and all of the sudden I just started spinning. Scary stuff but the 86 is way more planted and I doubt that would happen.

heres a little tidbit I think yall should know. The blackbox that records information about a crash can only be used for R&D, the insurance company cant do anything with that information. I do believe that if theres a fatality that information can be used against you but thats it.