follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-14-2012, 01:20 AM   #29
subatoy
Senior Member
 
subatoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Drives: subatoy
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 667
Thanks: 32
Thanked 198 Times in 106 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
I takes ~30% more E85 to just break even vs gasoline because ethanol has less energy. The BRZ/FRS has two fuel injection systems, direct and port. Between the two of them we can flow enough E85 to benefit from being able to advance the ignition. At the very least we need tuning to get a benefit. You will need tuning, and depending on your fuel injection system limitations you may need larger injectors and even a higher capacity fuel pump. You'rereally going to want to ask that question on a VW specific website like vwvortex. They'd be way more familiar with your platform than we would be.

I read somewhere that the BRZ/FRS manual says you shouldn't run on E85, I guess that means without some sort of convertion.
subatoy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to subatoy For This Useful Post:
Wes B. (09-14-2012)
Old 09-14-2012, 01:49 AM   #30
LeavingNormal
FRS2DTH
 
LeavingNormal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: Hot Lava 2013 Scion FRS
Location: United States
Posts: 450
Thanks: 447
Thanked 92 Times in 65 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatoy View Post
I read somewhere that the BRZ/FRS manual says you shouldn't run on E85, I guess that means without some sort of convertion.
You need a tune like the one Visconti offers.
LeavingNormal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 02:59 AM   #31
cruzinbill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: Argento 6spd FR-S
Location: AR
Posts: 674
Thanks: 72
Thanked 181 Times in 122 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZWood View Post
Not taking away from anything you said, but my beef with e85 is that all the soybean farmers in America switched to corn, soy beans grown in south America, deforestation, more C02, global warming, we all die, the end.

Oh noes! deforestation..... dont care because you know what? algae produces more oxygen than a rain forest could ever dream of. On top of that there are still plenty of soybean farmers in the U.S.

So you and the OP can go back to youtube and finish enjoying your conspiracy theories.

Also for fun here is some reading marerial for you to enjoy waiting for the apocolypse this Dec. http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfer...th-is-cooling/
cruzinbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 07:20 AM   #32
Sportsguy83
I Love custom Turbo kits
 
Sportsguy83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: Limited BRZ
Location: Miami
Posts: 10,770
Thanks: 20,004
Thanked 8,346 Times in 4,361 Posts
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 12 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatoy View Post
I read somewhere that the BRZ/FRS manual says you shouldn't run on E85, I guess that means without some sort of convertion.
Yes, you should not run E85 on the stock fuel maps. It will be bad on your engine long term. That is what Subaru warning is for.
Sportsguy83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 09:18 AM   #33
Superhatch
AIM4APX
 
Superhatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 WRB BRZ Limited
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 1,206
Thanks: 642
Thanked 749 Times in 324 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes B. View Post
E85: has a much higher octane rating than Premium gasoline, burns at far lower temperatures due its thermodynamics (which allows the engine to run cooler), and it burns cleaner. E85 is the way of the future for internal combustion engines, and it's as innovative as EFI and MFI were to carburetors.
I agree 100%. But it also takes a LOT of energy to produce, and without the government subsidies and the drought I'd be willing to bet that it's going to die a slow death.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...358634706.html
__________________
"It's very difficult to present technology as an overtly positive sales device to people who want an emotional car" -Chris Harris
Superhatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #34
fuddbutter
Potato Farmer
 
fuddbutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: #SLOBRZ
Location: Melbourne Aust
Posts: 787
Thanks: 493
Thanked 247 Times in 152 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I like to pump a little gas if you know what i mean, my tank is runnin on empty..
__________________
Something something butter..
www.vic86brzclub.com
fuddbutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #35
Mitch
form follows function
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: RIP '13 BRZ
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 688
Thanks: 42
Thanked 234 Times in 122 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatoy View Post
I read somewhere that the BRZ/FRS manual says you shouldn't run on E85, I guess that means without some sort of convertion.
That is Subaru saying that they have not certified any components to be compatible with E85, and any failures resulting from its use will be declined for warranty service. Everything could be chemically compatible, and all it needs is a tune to work. On the other hand, there could be some gasket in the fuel system that is not the recommended material of construction and may eventually fail from extended use of high ethanol gas.
Mitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 01:47 PM   #36
eightsix
was when i was born
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Drives: 2010 Turbo tC, 2011 rav4
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 34
Thanks: 2
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I kind of understand where to OP is comming from. When shops post "We made 4xx hp ..... on e85" thats awesome. But im thinking to myself well how much on 91 and 93?

I think e85 is awsome but the closest one to me is 20 miles away... this is in Kansas by the way(corn everywhere lol).

I just wish shops would post more about 91 and 93 then show the capabilities of e85 and meth injection.
__________________
Ptuning FTW
eightsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 07:10 PM   #37
PowderfaceTr.
Senior Member
 
PowderfaceTr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: stock
Location: ALBERTA CANADA
Posts: 117
Thanks: 31
Thanked 81 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightsix View Post
I kind of understand where to OP is comming from. When shops post "We made 4xx hp ..... on e85" thats awesome. But im thinking to myself well how much on 91 and 93?

I think e85 is awsome but the closest one to me is 20 miles away... this is in Kansas by the way(corn everywhere lol).

I just wish shops would post more about 91 and 93 then show the capabilities of e85 and meth injection.
Most of the world doesn't have corn juice. So your limiting your business only to them Americans. Bought a street car, but you want a race car, ...your gonna have a bad time.
As a child, seeing racing engines built from the ground up. I watched for hours, the labour in honing cylinder walls and porting heads. Very much like art. Authentic, they find more power from already fantastic ENGINES. Fuels are fine but lets not start there and end there
Can you respect a motor head for selling/using a product/fuel to compensate for a lack of effort?
PowderfaceTr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 08:43 PM   #38
TheRipler
Reap the BReeZe
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 04 LandShark STi
Location: Texas Mile -198.1mph
Posts: 289
Thanks: 81
Thanked 72 Times in 44 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr. View Post
Most of the world doesn't have corn juice. So your limiting your business only to them Americans. Bought a street car, but you want a race car, ...your gonna have a bad time.
As a child, seeing racing engines built from the ground up. I watched for hours, the labour in honing cylinder walls and porting heads. Very much like art. Authentic, they find more power from already fantastic ENGINES. Fuels are fine but lets not start there and end there
Can you respect a motor head for selling/using a product/fuel to compensate for a lack of effort?
Who says you have to end there? Adjust the way you do all that effort. Raise the compression a little, and embiggen the exhaust cams. Why leave power on the table with an inferior fuel that will be more likely to lay waste to all your hard work?
TheRipler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 01:49 AM   #39
PowderfaceTr.
Senior Member
 
PowderfaceTr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: stock
Location: ALBERTA CANADA
Posts: 117
Thanks: 31
Thanked 81 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
People want E85 to go mildly fast in a enjoyably slow touring car. Not caring about the underlying idea behind it: Cheap handling.
Such a boy racer mentality, with no money left for when the fast JF1Z comes into production. Ill bet you'll put corn in that too.
with a pretty shiny exhaust, cool fart intake, awsome!

Last edited by PowderfaceTr.; 09-15-2012 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Slow
PowderfaceTr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 02:37 AM   #40
_hollywood
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: 97 itr sold
Location: WI
Posts: 565
Thanks: 183
Thanked 165 Times in 98 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
We are already driving a car that gets over 30 mpg, i think we should be able to have a little fun with e85, and 20 yrs from now it will be obsolete so fuck it....

Ill consider going corn once i see some higher mileage setups, as this is my daily driver, unlike most garage dyno queens ( hides mkiv supra back in garage)
__________________
FR-S #56 of 86 Raven MT ***FOR SALE***
_hollywood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 04:21 AM   #41
PowderfaceTr.
Senior Member
 
PowderfaceTr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: stock
Location: ALBERTA CANADA
Posts: 117
Thanks: 31
Thanked 81 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
E85 is crack.
PowderfaceTr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 07:03 AM   #42
DEnd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: anyone seen my steering wheel?
Location: Double Shoals, NC
Posts: 121
Thanks: 3
Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr. View Post
Most of the world doesn't have corn juice. So your limiting your business only to them Americans. Bought a street car, but you want a race car, ...your gonna have a bad time.
As a child, seeing racing engines built from the ground up. I watched for hours, the labour in honing cylinder walls and porting heads. Very much like art. Authentic, they find more power from already fantastic ENGINES. Fuels are fine but lets not start there and end there
Can you respect a motor head for selling/using a product/fuel to compensate for a lack of effort?
Apparently you didn't learn anything. Fuel is where you start and end engine design. Every single peice of the engine is affected by the fuel you choose to use. Cam lift, duration, and timing... all of those must take your fuel use into consideration. Crank, rods, and pistons... again all are chosen based on the fuel. Hell about the only part of the engine design where fuel plays little if any part is the exhaust port.

*Edit now that I think about it even the exhaust port is designed based on the fuel, though indirectly...

Last edited by DEnd; 09-15-2012 at 07:43 AM.
DEnd is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.