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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 09-06-2022, 12:16 PM   #29
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OK so the numbers game get's real interesting if you go back to the dynos everybody drooled over in February.
If those numbers (that were accepted by the optimists) are correct then the new header at Max 212HP actually LOST 3HP over stock!

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148862

So which is it? They can't both be right.

And you guys wonder why I question the accuracy of dyno results?
This probably belongs here...

I pulled this from a different website than this one (I think the moderators blocked it and put in www.**********.com instead )

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...JJI/edit#gid=0
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:20 PM   #30
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Cool day = more power
Hot day = less power

In the video, they say on a cool day (60 F) they got around 205~210 on the dyno when the car was stock.

Which matches what others were getting around launch back when they were dynoing the cars in cooler temps.

On the day they are testing, a presumably hot summer day in Iowa (I don't know if they ever said the temps), the car lost 20hp, which isn't surprising.

That also tracks with people on the forum complaining about the car feeling slower after driving it for awhile - you bought it is March when it was 30~50 F degrees and dry, and now it is 90 and humid... Your car lost 20+ hp.

It is also possible that to comply with upcoming emission requirements the new cats are more restrictive and so removing them does increase engine performance more than expected. Or at least compared to Gen 1, where removing the cats had a lesser impact because the cats were less restrictive as they had no reason to be more restrictive.
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:40 PM   #31
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Only oddity is that people have tested other catless headers on the gen 2 and it barely made any difference at all when run back to back.
Granted they were all designed for the FA20; the JDL 4-2-1 posted less dramatic changes, closer to what you'd expect from a non tuned bolt on.
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Old 09-06-2022, 01:29 PM   #32
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Cool day = more power
Hot day = less power

In the video, they say on a cool day (60 F) they got around 205~210 on the dyno when the car was stock.

Which matches what others were getting around launch back when they were dynoing the cars in cooler temps.

On the day they are testing, a presumably hot summer day in Iowa (I don't know if they ever said the temps), the car lost 20hp, which isn't surprising.

That also tracks with people on the forum complaining about the car feeling slower after driving it for awhile - you bought it is March when it was 30~50 F degrees and dry, and now it is 90 and humid... Your car lost 20+ hp.

It is also possible that to comply with upcoming emission requirements the new cats are more restrictive and so removing them does increase engine performance more than expected. Or at least compared to Gen 1, where removing the cats had a lesser impact because the cats were less restrictive as they had no reason to be more restrictive.
Also the dif between summer and winter blend fuels.
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Old 09-06-2022, 01:48 PM   #33
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Also the dif between summer and winter blend fuels.
And altitude, barometric pressure, and probably half a dozen other factors.
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Old 09-06-2022, 02:19 PM   #34
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Cool day = more power
Hot day = less power.
Presumably they'd be comparing *corrected* (for temp, pressure, RH, etc) power and torque vs. *corrected*, right? The note "CF: STD" on the plot on post #1 means "Correction Factor: Standard (SAE)".

But +20 corrected vs corrected rwhp from this header? In a pig's eye...
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Old 09-06-2022, 03:13 PM   #35
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Without a Tune they are not seeing gains like that. Something is just not right here.
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Old 09-06-2022, 09:04 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
OK so the numbers game get's real interesting if you go back to the dynos everybody drooled over in February.
If those numbers (that were accepted by the optimists) are correct then the new header at Max 212HP actually LOST 3HP over stock!

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148862

So which is it? They can't both be right.

And you guys wonder why I question the accuracy of dyno results?
You know better than to make a comparison like that. Cheeky bugger.

When attempting to evaluate parts the best practice is to dyno, change, then dyno again in the same dyno straight away. And its not about the outright numbers its about the delta.

Of course there is the capacity for dodgy operators, that's always true, but isn't that just a given that we live with when anyone reports anything?
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Old 09-06-2022, 11:34 PM   #37
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Hmmm, they deleted comments questioning the validity of the results on their YouTube...
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Old 09-07-2022, 12:24 AM   #38
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Hmmm, they deleted comments questioning the validity of the results on their YouTube...

Lol. Thatís more suspicious then just leaving them and ignoring them. I had to comment now.
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Old 09-07-2022, 05:40 AM   #39
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You know better than to make a comparison like that. Cheeky bugger.

When attempting to evaluate parts the best practice is to dyno, change, then dyno again in the same dyno straight away. And its not about the outright numbers its about the delta.

Of course there is the capacity for dodgy operators, that's always true, but isn't that just a given that we live with when anyone reports anything?
It is that delta that everybody om this thread is challenging. You can't just totally ignore the "outright" numbers since that is where the delta comes from.

And no I will not just live with dodgy reporting.
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Old 09-07-2022, 06:27 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
It is that delta that everybody om this thread is challenging. You can't just totally ignore the "outright" numbers since that is where the delta comes from.

And no I will not just live with dodgy reporting.
So what's the problem, just that you don't think a car can only pull 194hp on a dyno because its delta from the 'average of random reported dynos' is about 10% off?

Look I dont know if its dodgy, but I know I've seen bigger discrepancies on the original 86. Mine stock was 150hp (on hub dyno, so should report higher). If you averaged out all the 'reported' dynos on here I have no doubt it would be more than 10% down. People do not like posting low number, and dyno people love fabricating high ones.

Getting 10% increase from a non tuned header is huge, no doubt. But according to tuner I've seen they were getting pretty much that on the old car with an exhaust (headers) - adding around 10kw to baselines of between 105-110kw. That's not far off.

So what is dodgy, what do you trust?

For reference, here is the tuner talking about the stock 86, the stock and bolt ons without a tune, and also the a dyno from a 2022 BRZ.

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Old 09-07-2022, 06:58 AM   #41
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So what's the problem, just that you don't think a car can only pull 194hp on a dyno because its delta from the 'average of random reported dynos' is about 10% off?

Look I dont know if its dodgy, but I know I've seen bigger discrepancies on the original 86. Mine stock was 150hp (on hub dyno, so should report higher). If you averaged out all the 'reported' dynos on here I have no doubt it would be more than 10% down. People do not like posting low number, and dyno people love fabricating high ones.

Getting 10% increase from a non tuned header is huge, no doubt. But according to tuner I've seen they were getting pretty much that on the old car with an exhaust (headers) - adding around 10kw to baselines of between 105-110kw. That's not far off.

So what is dodgy, what do you trust?

For reference, here is the tuner talking about the stock 86, the stock and bolt ons without a tune, and also the a dyno from a 2022 BRZ.
I think that everybody that has questioned these results have been pretty clear on what our concerns are and I am not going to rehash them all.
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Old 09-07-2022, 09:17 AM   #42
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I think that everybody that has questioned these results have been pretty clear on what our concerns are and I am not going to rehash them all.
Lol. Honestly mate, you are so slippery.
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