Scion Fr-S vs 25K 2002 Porsche 911 Carrera

[FR]

After spending a bit of time with the awesome people at Scion Gabriel yesterday I decided to revisit a thought I had going into this.

An early millenia 2002 Porsche 911 Carrera convertible vs you've guessed it, the FR-S

Now some of you may call me silly and wonder why the hell would someone waste their time comparing two cars that are dramatically different in the driving experience, ownership cost and performance setup.

Well the reason is simple, because I had time to burn and couldn't help notice the huge Porsche dealership that cornered Scion Gabriel in Montreal

I spent a bit of time talking to a few garages and googling the main 'concern points' to try to anticipate any and all things that could go wrong on a fairly well maintained example of the Teutonic species. I quickly realized that a coy Porsche owner with mild mechanical skills could relatively cheaply maintain a 911 without too much hassle.

The FR-S is manufactured by companies reputed for assembling cars with the reliability of a desperate friend'zoned college kid, being a new model It was hard to bring in a fair comparison to the way it would age but knowing Toyotas in general, the quality and reliability is bullet proof enough to assume costs would be low.

The Porsche I chose for this exercise was very low mileage and meant that with preventative maintenance and a close eye on the car, I was going to come very close to the FR-S at about 31 500$ all fees and taxes in on the short term.

At that price, I could cover the Porsche's maintenance for about 2 and a half years (just in case Murphy's law decided to rain on my parade) assuming the FR-s cost me nothing to maintain aside from the cheap Toyota oil and filter changes etc ...

Now to the driving experience.

The Fr-S is brand new, the driving experience combines a well balanced chassis with a rev happy engine that is tailor made to give the car a direct output to the driver's input. 200hp is not a lot of HP but the car's diminutive weight makes it tossable and tail happy at high revs

This Porsche itself has had about 10 years to let a few horses escape from the barn but one thing that is hard to excuse from the 996 series is the overall weight that that skims 3500 lbs making the car a fun but a bit too inclined to scramble when pushed to the limits of braking and track use. I love the Porsche's grunt and superb power but it requires a keen understanding of vehicle dynamics when pushed to it's 'fun zone' something the Scion willingly gives in a more balanced package.

After a few minutes of tossing the Porsche, I very quickly get the annoyance of the push button tip tronic which is as thrilling as texting your mother drunk in a movie theater, pure garbage.

As dynamic as the Scion felt, the heaving nature of the Porsche made it an uninteresting proposition.

Until you hit 120 Kph, at that speed, the Porsche's slinky nature and 3.6 liter V6 groan and grumble make it a dominant affair

At those speeds, the Scion struggles to find the pickup it needs to trounce the competition but stays relatively quiet and comfortable compared to the well used surface of the Porsche's black leather.

In conclusion I think that if you decided to go for the Porsche take into account three things : your ability to understand the car's mechanical nature and temperament, knowing an honest mechanic who has access to parts within a reasonable delay. The understand that this cannot be a daily driver

For the Scion understand this : It's a trippy city cruiser with a good natured growl but low on 100mph thrill which the Porsche excels at. Parts are already being engineered at an astounding rate by a large variety of companies and of course the nature of being told :

Oh shit is that the Fr-S vs Nice old Porsche, is it your mom's ?

[Capt Canuck]

Sorry, but New Vs Used = Fail

[Khyron686]

Not really a fail - it's a "does XX dollars buy you YY thrills".

A new 911 is around 110K - does that get you 4 times the fun/thrill of a FR-S? If you are a new/crappy driver, will you ever explore the limits of an entry supercar?

One note about any P-car - you MUST be prepared to swallow 10-20K in disaster money. If that would bankrupt you or take food off the table, walk away.

I was quite deep in the 997 purchase experience when I fell into the FR-S/BRZ world. Lots of guys on here were cross-shopping BOSS/Cayman/911/Vettes - it's not just $=$.

[Khyron686]

An IMS failure is 21K incl labour to replace the motor. 3-5% chance seems to be accepted. Often blown out of proportion but it's a huge risk if you're already stretching just to make the initial purchase.

Other little stuff, 2-4K is not abnormal.

An NA 924/944 is basically a VW in terms of maint.

[ttknf]

If you like owning a car that needs constant repairs and leaves you stranded every now and then, get the Porsche.

[Jeff Lange]

I think the repairs would probably be where you'd fine people getting stuck when considering the price ranges.

New car for XX dollars gets you warranty and a very reliable car. The same XX dollars gets you a very nice 10 year old car, but you need to be prepared to shell out for repairs that you'd never even need to consider in a new car.

This is of course the case for any car, and why comparing new to old is often a bad idea. 10 years from now you can compare a 10 year old FR-S to a 10 year old 911, that will be a more realistic comparison.



But still, it is a somewhat valid point, if you're going to drop the cash, consider all your options, and whether getting a brand new car is worth the extra dollars to have a brand new car.

Jeff

[YinYang1980]

buy the old porsche and have fun....

[Sport-Tech]

You'll get your "100 mph thrill" from the BRZ when the cops confiscate your car and you lose your license.

My current 140 hp/133 ft-lb, 2560 lb Tiburon gets from 100 to 160 kph quickly enough for me, the FR-S will feel like a rocket on the highway by comparison. If an acceleration run is over in 2 seconds instead of 7, you don't really have time to enjoy it as your mind quickly turns to looking for the cops.

[CoryUyede]

I used to be Mechanic at a shop that specialized in Porsches. i didn't work there long enough to know the ins and outs of them, but i can tell you..avoid the AUTOMATIC porsches if you can..it's an added repair expense that WILL fail..and it can get VERY expensive.


That being said, I've always wanted a porsche . I've been VERY close to buying a 928, 944 and a 996/7 . I've always chickened out for financial reasons. Plus I honestly don't like any of their Interiors.


But they're FUN and unbelievably easy to drive.. Very rewarding once you realize how to manipulate the weight balance (not including the 928/944 obviously).

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

20k disaster money? I had a 924 and that POS broke all the time and it didn't even cost me near 10k in 3 years of ownership.

a 924 is more VW Beetle than Porsche.

how can you possibly compare owning a 924 to a new age 911

[7thgear]

no?

i worked on a 944 for a few months before having to sell it

many of the parts are ordered from the states, plenty of suppliers (pelican parts comes to mind)

the parts are cheap and half are shared with VW's made in the same era.

i changed out alternators with VW logo stamped on them.

balljoints, tie rod ends, strut tops, hardware, all that good stuff is honda-like affordable.

so i have absolutely no clue how you can consider the upkeep of a 924/944 expensive.

[7thgear]

http://www.paragon-products.com/default.asp

http://www.pelicanparts.com/index.htm

prices are in line with any other old and dying car, so i think your "Porsche Specialist" was just charging you through the ass. When it comes to old cars there are no "specialists", they are all the same buckets of metal. I can think of like 2 specialty tools one would need to work on a 924/944, the rest is all metric.

[Khyron686]

Just avoid doing a clutch job on a 944 turbo.

Winter tires and rims for a 997 come in at 4K - that's without TPMS sensors and that's as small/cheap that are available.

Rears are 4-500 each, and you can't just buy them anywhere. Blow a tire on a highway trip and you're waiting overnight.

I will probably buy one some day, but there's a lot of compromises to be dealt with.

[7thgear]

or buy non porsche tires?

and stay way from 19's that's really the only reason they cost so much.