The new GT4

[MrSkubi]

Originally Posted by ZDan

At 3227 lb. and 493hp, it's a perfectly acceptable modern mid-engine Corvette (unlike the C8!).

I'd be WAY more impressed if Porsche would produce a legit lightweight sports car again. I'd rather have a smaller 2600-lb. Cayman with half the horsepower versus another oversized/overweight megaperforming ego-stroker like this. If I wanted to go superfast at the track, I'd get a formula car or sports racer and go faster, have more fun, for less $$$.

It's quite funny that bigger GT3 should be considerably heavier car but apparently there is about 20 kg of difference between both base models.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Soooo... A BRZ/GR86 with no interior/ac/etc then?

???
Mazda builds a 2-seat 2350 lb. sports car, and Toyobaru builds a 2800 lb. 4-seat sports/sporty 2+2 coupe, both with full interiors/ac/etc., for reasonable $$$.
Porsche could easily build a dedicated 2-seat sports car, with full interior/ac/etc., at 2600 lb. or less.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by MrSkubi

It's quite funny that bigger GT3 should be considerably heavier car but apparently there is about 20 kg of difference between both base models.

Huh, Porsche site shows the GT3 about 50 lb. *lighter* than the GT4. While a base 911 is ~300 lb. heavier than a base 718.

[MrSkubi]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Huh, Porsche site shows the GT3 about 50 lb. *lighter* than the GT4. While a base 911 is ~300 lb. heavier than a base 718.

Looks like you're right !
3227 lbs for GT4RS and 3164 lbs for GT3 (both US market base models)

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by ZDan

???
Mazda builds a 2-seat 2350 lb. sports car, and Toyobaru builds a 2800 lb. 4-seat sports/sporty 2+2 coupe, both with full interiors/ac/etc., for reasonable $$$.
Porsche could easily build a dedicated 2-seat sports car, with full interior/ac/etc., at 2600 lb. or less.

I was saying if you remove the interior and such from a gen2, you basically have a 2600lb sports car with half the hp of the gt4. You don't really need Porsche to make it.

Or you can supercharge a Miata.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I was saying if you remove the interior and such from a gen2, you basically have a 2600lb sports car with half the hp of the gt4. You don't really need Porsche to make it.

Or you can supercharge a Miata.

Well, I don't want a daily-driver with no interior! Also, 45F/55R weight distribution >> 55F/45R for a rear-drive sports car. And I don't want a roadster, want fixed-roof coupe.

But anyway, point is, I think Porsche could and should make a legit smaller, lighter-weight sports car. Too bad they're not really interested in that any more, although that's what made them great in the first place.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Well, I don't want a daily-driver with no interior! Also, 45F/55R weight distribution >> 55F/45R for a rear-drive sports car. And I don't want a roadster, want fixed-roof coupe.

But anyway, point is, I think Porsche could and should make a legit smaller, lighter-weight sports car. Too bad they're not really interested in that any more, although that's what made them great in the first place.

I agree it would be great if they did. I'd probably buy it.

[Coaster]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Well, I don't want a daily-driver with no interior! Also, 45F/55R weight distribution >> 55F/45R for a rear-drive sports car. And I don't want a roadster, want fixed-roof coupe.

But anyway, point is, I think Porsche could and should make a legit smaller, lighter-weight sports car. Too bad they're not really interested in that any more, although that's what made them great in the first place.

It wouldn't sell really well...only to a small group of people. Sports cars in general are decreasing in numbers as SUV/ crossovers and minivans increase. Ford is an example.

There is one vehicle that is light weight (sub 2600 lb), RWD, and 50/50 eight balance... T50.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by ZDan

At 3227 lb. and 493hp, it's a perfectly acceptable modern mid-engine Corvette (unlike the C8!).

I'd be WAY more impressed if Porsche would produce a legit lightweight sports car again. I'd rather have a smaller 2600-lb. Cayman with half the horsepower versus another oversized/overweight megaperforming ego-stroker like this. If I wanted to go superfast at the track, I'd get a formula car or sports racer and go faster, have more fun, for less $$$.

I kind of wonder how the platform got so heavy, given the 986 is what 2 inches shorter and half an inch narrower? Is the floor twice as stiff? Is there 100lbs more sound deadening and carpet? How did it go from ~2950lbs to 3200lbs with all the extra aluminum?

If Porsche took out everything that makes a 718 heavier than the 986, did all the aluminum bits they added over the years to get the car lighter, then put in a bespoke small block H6 (or V6, I don't care) kind of like a Mazda K series and a smaller and lighter trans to match, it would get to your ask of 2600lbs. A 9000rpm 2.5L engine would produce around 310hp which is perfect. You can wind it out all the time without hitting 80mph.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I kind of wonder how the platform got so heavy, given the 986 is what 2 inches shorter and half an inch narrower? Is the floor twice as stiff? Is there 100lbs more sound deadening and carpet? How did it go from ~2950lbs to 3200lbs with all the extra aluminum?

Current car is MUCH bigger, more voluminous, than 986/987. The car is physically a lot bulkier even if length/width/height aren't tremendously greater. Also they went to 1" taller wheels *and tire diameter* all around with the 981. IMO to try to disguise how much BULKIER that car was vs. 987!

That said the base 718 is "only" about 3050 lb. IIRC. Where the GT3 is quite a bit lighter than a normal 911, the GT4 is quite a bit heavier than a normal 718.

Regarding stiffness, they build in a ton of that into the lower chassis for the open-top Boxster, which means the Cayman is WAY stiffer than it needs to be (same for 911). If it were a dedicated fixed-roof coupe design, they could lose a lot of weight while maintaining necessary chassis stiffness for a high-performance sports car.

I remember how my 987.2 Cayman felt like a bank-vault in terms of stiffness. Way overkill...

If Porsche took out everything that makes a 718 heavier than the 986, did all the aluminum bits they added over the years to get the car lighter, then put in a bespoke small block H6 (or V6, I don't care) kind of like a Mazda K series and a smaller and lighter trans to match, it would get to your ask of 2600lbs. A 9000rpm 2.5L engine would produce around 310hp which is perfect. You can wind it out all the time without hitting 80mph.

That'd be about perfect! But it should be physically smaller too. Also, make that 2.5/310hp engine a V4, they have v4 heritage! Flat engines aren't the best idea IMO. For cars or motorcycles!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ZDan

But anyway, point is, I think Porsche could and should make a legit smaller, lighter-weight sports car. Too bad they're not really interested in that any more, although that's what made them great in the first place.

??? Porsche always made GT cars, only marginally lighter then the lightest pony cars. Their 'light sporty and cheap' cars (912/914/924/944) were flops up until the Boxster.

'66 Base Mustang: ~2,600 lbs
'66 Base 911: ~2,400 lbs

'21 Base 911: ~3,400 lbs
'21 Base Mustang: ~3,500 lbs

[Ernest72]

What we need is 15 of us at 10k a piece to buy one Gt4RS and share it. We each get it for 3.5 weeks a year.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

What we need is 15 of us at 10k a piece to buy one Gt4RS and share it. We each get it for 3.5 weeks a year.

More like 20 of us. You jst need a better job.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

??? Porsche always made GT cars, only marginally lighter then the lightest pony cars. Their 'light sporty and cheap' cars (912/914/924/944) were flops up until the Boxster.

"Always"? Porsche existed prior to the 911...
Porsche made its name in the 50s into the 60s racing small light-weight race cars that punched above their category and frequently took overall wins against bigger/heavier and much more powerful cars in faster classes.

'66 Base Mustang: ~2,600 lbs
'66 Base 911: ~2,400 lbs

'21 Base 911: ~3,400 lbs
'21 Base Mustang: ~3,500 lb

FWIW the 1965 Porsche 356 was still under 2000 lb....

Data I have shows a V8 64 1/2 Mustang being ~2800 lb.
'64 1/2 - '66 were the only pony cars of the 60s to weigh less than 3000, by 1967 they had bulked up, and by the end of "gen 1" were up to ~3400+ lb. in 1973. Other "pony cars" of the era were 3200 up to 3800 lb. For sure 2600 lb. isn't a "typical pony car weight", not by a long shot...

1973 911 was still around 2400 lb, . And it was the *heavyweight* Porsche, the 914 was ~2100 lb.

Honestly, 60s/early-70s 911s were more like 800-1200 lb. lighter than "pony cars". And the *lightweight* Porsche model (when it existed) was something like 1200-1500 lb. lighter.

Mustang got lightweight again with the Mustang II (luxified Pinto), but of course that didn't keep it from being an utterly crap car... And still at least 400 lb. heavier than the 911.

A better, more consistent barometer for the 911 would be the Corvette. ~3300 lb. for a 1968 C3 all the way up to 2013 C6. During that era the 911 went from being a good 1000 lb. lighter to being the same weight.

Personally, I don't think even the "grand touring" 911 should weigh as much as a Corvette, and certainly the smallest/lightest-weight Porsche should be much much lighter.

But anyway, that's just, like, my opinion man...