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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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05-08-2017, 12:12 PM | #29 | |
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I already let my tuner know of the change and re-dyno. He wants to see the logs before we put it back on the dyno, to see if anything changes again with the MAF. Swapping the intake over tonight then I'll dyno again later this week. Thanks!
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05-08-2017, 12:21 PM | #30 | ||
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05-09-2017, 02:48 AM | #31 | |
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The real difference of the older stock cars ('13 - '16) with the '17 cars is 5 hp. Additionally, you're saying that the bolt-ons and tune on the new car gave minimal peak gains. If we subtract the 5 hp difference, then I would expect that the peak gains of the same parts on the old car to be also minimal. My overall point is that the argument "the old cars were not efficient from the factory" is nonsense. It was just a big greenfield for the aftermarket scene and some vendors exaggerated the results for their own benefit with specific products. Last edited by nikitopo; 05-09-2017 at 03:07 AM. |
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05-09-2017, 08:15 AM | #32 | |
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05-09-2017, 08:41 AM | #33 |
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Heres a log of this guys 2017 stock brz
http://www.datazap.me/u/justinco/201...-2-4-7-9-10-11 Now you will notice two things 1. It doesn't run pig rich like the older cars, 2017 12.5 AFR, the older cars ran down into the high 10 AFR like 10.8 2. The STFT is still active all the way to redline at WOT , ie its running CLOSED loop all the way. This equals better AFR control. The old tunes went OPEN loop fuelling after a short period of WOT. Around 12 is what most tuners leaned out the old tunes to get a bit more power higher rpm if the fuel was good enough. In the new tunes its already done so its likely to limit gains you can make with tune alone. Which this guys before and after dyno appear to show. The 2017 ECU software has changed not just the setting in tune tables. They have completely revised the fuelling strategy, its much more complex than the old fuelling logic, additional fuel tables and changed logic and runs closed loop almost all the time. They also have two timing and fueling maps/modes in the ZA1JKxxx roms. Last edited by steve99; 05-09-2017 at 09:37 AM. |
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to steve99 For This Useful Post: | 200hp/tonne (05-09-2017), FRSBRZGT86FAN (06-25-2018), invaliduser (05-09-2017), justinco (05-09-2017), phm14 (05-11-2020), Prodigalson (09-15-2018), sato (05-16-2017) |
05-09-2017, 09:24 AM | #34 | |||
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The tunes on the original cars were rushed, and it showed in many ways. The 2017's have a much more refined tune. Quote:
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05-09-2017, 09:38 AM | #35 | |
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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h4kkTgmjXE"]Scion FRS post upgrade dyno numbers - YouTube[/ame]
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05-09-2017, 11:03 AM | #36 | |
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Also, what is the point behind multiple ignition maps?
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05-09-2017, 11:33 AM | #37 | |
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How do you monitor the AFRs? I've seen different dynos of the older cars (stock) and the AFRs were totally different. They are running now in closed loop almost all the time for better fuel consumption. This was confirmed by the factory. |
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05-09-2017, 11:50 AM | #38 |
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If the car in question has been tuned, then the AFR will be whatever the tune is commanding. If you're relying on the stock primary O2, it'll be different because it can only read so low without being re-scaled.
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05-09-2017, 12:19 PM | #39 | |
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The log above AFR measured by vehicles 02 sensor, the 2017 tune calibrates it down to 10 afr. The previous tunes only calibrated 02 sensor down to 12.17 afr so even if it ran way richer (which it did) you could not see the correct reading using the vehicle o2 sensor unless you flashed a tune with 02 sensor recalibrated to read lower afr. Or you had to use a tailpipe sensor, these usually read a little different to the vehicle 02 sensor that right near the exhaust port, tailpipe sensor usually read 0.5 to 1 afr point leaner from what ive seen. Here is log of an older STOCK rom , note how the AFR just flatlines at the sensor reading limit of 12.17, its rearly running afr down to 10.8 or so http://www.datazap.me/u/steve99/brz-...zoom=1718-1986 See Image at end of this post the STOCK fuel table targeted by ecu in older roms 2012-2016, high rpm/load its targeting in the 10 AFR Pretty well every tune ive logged tuners have leaned out the old tunes to around 12 to 12.3 at high rpm/load. this was an easy power gain, they also did changes to cam timings. however ive seen a few kw gained on cars that ran rich by simply leaning them out to what the original tuner set (ie the maf scaling was off due say intake change) correcting the afr got you a few kw without changing anything else. They don't seem to be claiming better economy figures on our web site still got 7.8l/100km as per old version A01G is older rom, K00C is 2017 rom Last edited by steve99; 05-09-2017 at 12:48 PM. |
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05-09-2017, 12:49 PM | #40 |
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As you should. Pretty sure I made that clear in the video that there are so many variables to take into account, and this was just 1 test. You are welcome to perform your own and share
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05-09-2017, 12:58 PM | #41 | |
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The ecu hardware and processor appear to be same. however while you can flash older roms to the 2017 ecu , don't, their appears to be changes to the Security system in the 2017 and the car wont start ecu and immobiliser modules throw a hissy fit, believe me I know. You can get it working again by resyncing all the security modules, but you need the 2017 rom. All the changes to fueling strategy and timing strategy are not yet fully understood, especially by opensource guys. Ecutek guys have got most of it sorted, but think theirs still a few unknowns. |
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05-09-2017, 01:16 PM | #42 | |
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