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Old 10-02-2021, 10:56 PM   #1191
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Originally Posted by weederr33 View Post
Well you were antagonizing wbradley so.... lol
AnTagOniZiNg


Except I wasn’t. But ok. Nothing I said was antagonizing. There were far more demeaning comments made to him by other users that I didn’t agree with.

If what I said in that thread is “antagonizing” then the world has become soft af.
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Old 10-03-2021, 09:43 AM   #1192
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well, you were definitely contributing...
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:44 AM   #1193
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well, you were definitely contributing...
Well, not really............
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Old 10-03-2021, 12:03 PM   #1194
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Originally Posted by TylerLieberman View Post
Well, not really............
Yes. Yes you were.
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Old 10-03-2021, 04:39 PM   #1195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atropine View Post
That is the thing CJD.

Welfare and permanently on assistance people ARE NOT having their "income" threatened.

In fact, when the idea is floated out there that people on government assistance could be mandated...you have multiple news agencies saying how that isn't fair.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...942_story.html

But if an Airline/Hospital/food chain fires their workers for not getting the vaccine...that same news outlet is ok with it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ny...cid=uxbndlbing

Just curious why the double standard.

You said unemployed, which is a rather specifically different group than those on welfare, etc. Though I know people who have had to transition to welfare while the job market remains as piss-poor as it is.
Also, from what I've gleaned most people ALWAYS feel like even this meager scraping-by is incredibly threatened.
Also, it gets complicated pretty fast. Losing welfare for MOST recipients leads to even worse choices and problems. A lot of those folks also have jobs where they can't take time off for a vaccine...

At any rate, one rather big difference? The mandates are private companies, and welfare, unemployment, etc. are all government programs. The goal here appears to be to put pressure where it has the broadest ability to influence and move us along. I'm sure we're not done with changes as we learn more, etc.

Also, right now those private companies have an option (if they're big enough) - vaccination OR testing schedules. Honestly I'd personally hope for BOTH from health-care workers on the front line.
The only clear double standard I see is the religious exemption.
Medical reasons I do understand - those can be complex.
Personally? I'd support vaccine requirements for everyone. But that's because I support health-care for everyone. Room for everyone to take a sick day when they're sick. Actual living wages. You know, basic "take care of your neighbors" stuff. But religious teaching probably shouldn't play a role in this conversation.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:28 PM   #1196
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@cjd

Separation of Church and State.

Pretty much sums up why you cannot ignore religious exemptions.

Article VII of the Civil Rights act of 1964 reiterates that.
https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-...ights-act-1964

My big thing is that you can't break civil rights for the illusion of safety.

I am a slippery slope believer.

As far as the Welfare thing, I guess 22 years in Healthcare watching regular middle class get liens put on their homes while watching us dump money and write it off for peopel who can't/won't/refuse to pay just bothers me.

The "out of work/can't find work" thing I just think is BS right now. I cannot go anywhere without seeing a "Help wanted' sign.

I 100% am ok helping the working poor. I don't want to give a dime to the non-working poor. Temprorary unemployment and disability are not what I am speaking about btw.

I am guessing we probably see this from the same lense.

I was more or less just annoyed how the general public is almost happy to see Healthcare workers/airline/etc get fired over their refusal to take the vaccine...BUT if you mention that Welfare recipients need to be mandated, you are called racist...which makes me wonder why they equate welfare to race.
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Old 10-04-2021, 08:27 AM   #1197
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Originally Posted by Atropine View Post
@cjd

Separation of Church and State.

Pretty much sums up why you cannot ignore religious exemptions.

Article VII of the Civil Rights act of 1964 reiterates that.
https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-...ights-act-1964

My big thing is that you can't break civil rights for the illusion of safety.

I am a slippery slope believer.

As far as the Welfare thing, I guess 22 years in Healthcare watching regular middle class get liens put on their homes while watching us dump money and write it off for peopel who can't/won't/refuse to pay just bothers me.

The "out of work/can't find work" thing I just think is BS right now. I cannot go anywhere without seeing a "Help wanted' sign.

I 100% am ok helping the working poor. I don't want to give a dime to the non-working poor. Temprorary unemployment and disability are not what I am speaking about btw.

I am guessing we probably see this from the same lense.

I was more or less just annoyed how the general public is almost happy to see Healthcare workers/airline/etc get fired over their refusal to take the vaccine...BUT if you mention that Welfare recipients need to be mandated, you are called racist...which makes me wonder why they equate welfare to race.
"Slippery Slope" is a logical fallacy though...
https://www.britannica.com/topic/sli...slope-argument
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:34 AM   #1198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atropine View Post
@cjd

Separation of Church and State.

Pretty much sums up why you cannot ignore religious exemptions.

Article VII of the Civil Rights act of 1964 reiterates that.
https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-...ights-act-1964

My big thing is that you can't break civil rights for the illusion of safety.

I am a slippery slope believer.

As far as the Welfare thing, I guess 22 years in Healthcare watching regular middle class get liens put on their homes while watching us dump money and write it off for peopel who can't/won't/refuse to pay just bothers me.

The "out of work/can't find work" thing I just think is BS right now. I cannot go anywhere without seeing a "Help wanted' sign.

I 100% am ok helping the working poor. I don't want to give a dime to the non-working poor. Temprorary unemployment and disability are not what I am speaking about btw.

I am guessing we probably see this from the same lense.

I was more or less just annoyed how the general public is almost happy to see Healthcare workers/airline/etc get fired over their refusal to take the vaccine...BUT if you mention that Welfare recipients need to be mandated, you are called racist...which makes me wonder why they equate welfare to race.
Your experience shows a problem,to be sure. What do you think happens if those who can't pay are denied care? Or are you proposing universal health care?

Help wanted doesn't mean it pays a living wage or is a viable option for so many reasons. Underpaid service work has room for more wage slaves, to be sure. That does not mean the job market is healthy; and taking a shit job is a death sentence for a professional. Does it offer health insurance? Good benefits? Adequate schedule flexibility for family care or sick time? It's a nasty psychological blow also, basically being told you're not wanted. So taking such a job might be a literal death sentence. Those signs are a reflection of our social inability to treat each other well. Not of a healthy job market.
Finally - health care workers should have the knowledge and training to make reasonable and informed decisions. I'm not gleeful about the job loss, but angry and appalled that those tasked with taking care of our health don't make reasoned and science backed decisions. I do not want those people working in the field. That leaves room for medical exemptions, but not religious ones. And it's not a government thing.

But hey, that means more jobs for those still looking. Or is it not actually that simple?
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:46 AM   #1199
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FFS, don't listen to this asshole.
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Old 10-04-2021, 10:34 AM   #1200
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It is widely known that there is a labour shortage these days. Please forgive me for using the Canadian spelling for labor.


Anyway, many businesses closed temporarily or permanently as a result of the pandemic, primarily in the service and hospitality sectors. So, all the help wanted positions you see out there in many cases are minimum wage jobs or close. And I wholeheartedly agree with CJD that a professional taking a low paying position can be a career destroyer sometimes.

I won't get into my personal situation, but the timing of leaving the company I worked as a contractor for back in 2018 turned out to be particularly bad timing for me to be changing careers. I only hope I can resume decent earning power once again before I really am too old.

Another reason for the labour shortage is that there has been virtually no immigration, at least to Canada, in the past almost 2 years.
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Old 10-04-2021, 10:43 AM   #1201
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It is widely known that there is a labour shortage these days. Please forgive me for using the Canadian spelling for labor.
Unforgivable. I'll break out the torches and pitchforks.
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:15 AM   #1202
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Originally Posted by Atropine View Post
which makes me wonder why they equate welfare to race.

they who? you're the ONLY one who brought up welfare in this thread.
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:18 AM   #1203
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Help wanted doesn't mean it pays a living wage or is a viable option for so many reasons. Underpaid service work has room for more wage slaves, to be sure.
Living Wage arguments aside, I can tell you that it applies well beyond entry level or lower paying jobs. I manage a department that right now has at last count about 10% of our approved headcount open and we are looking to hire. All these positions pay at or well above the current definition of "living wage", include full benefits with healthcare and 4 weeks vacation, and we are struggling to find candidates. Some of these are jobs that require little to no related experience.

Some of these positions have had zero applicants, in the last 3 weeks and we are basically training internal personnel to do more critical jobs to move the opens to less critical positions. The hiring struggle is real...

To some extent this may be a generational thing, but I can tell you that in past if I lost a job, I wasn't and unemployed this or an unemployed that, I was unemployed, and I took jobs to pay the bills until I found the right job. Just because you take an "underpaying" job to fill the gap doesn't mean you have to include it on your resume.
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Old 10-04-2021, 11:26 AM   #1204
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FFS, don't listen to this asshole.
Lol here we go again
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