2018 Toyota Camry Spied: Normalness in a New Generation

[Atmo]

Good to see the VVT-iW feature added to the iconic Camry V6 used throughout the Lexus and Toyota lineup for 2021. It switches between Otto and Atkinson cycles to lower emissions and increase mpg, about 4%-5%, while still making 301 hp/267 tq on Regular gas. No EPA estimates yet, but could be 26-27 mpg combined.

Hopefully the '21 8A/T has been tuned to behave in Sport mode, a real buzzkill on the otherwise impressive (for a grocery getter) '20 V6 I drove.

Toyota is cutting prices on many '21 Camry models, especially hybrids, while adding content. Why? Civic. Camry is currently behind in the car sales dominance race and had to react. If anyone is interested in a Camry (TRD is selling above plan and aftermarket LSD is available), there could be massive incentives in December.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Good to see the VVT-iW feature added to the iconic Camry V6 used throughout the Lexus and Toyota lineup for 2021.

It's been there since 2018 MY. They all use the 2GR-FKS rated at 301hp for 87 octane on sedans (the old 2GR-FE was only 268hp). The K stands for VVT-iW, which can retard the intake cam around an extra ~30 degrees over the old VVT-i IIRC, but it's still oil actuated unlike the fancier VVT-iE which has faster response.

At low load, the residual pressure in the cylinder at the end of the exhaust stroke is higher than in the intake manifold (which is under vacuum), so intake valve opening can be delayed quite a bit without incurring serious losses overexpanding the exhaust gas. It's pretty surprising to me that not a lot of car makers caught onto this idea and instead went for more complex mechanisms.

It also has an external cooled EGR feature added, which the __R-FE engines from the previous generation all didn't have. Mixing cooled EGR with the internal hot EGR reduces NOx emissions and can provide higher EGR volume under some situations to increase efficiency.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Good to see the VVT-iW feature added to the iconic Camry V6 used throughout the Lexus and Toyota lineup for 2021. It switches between Otto and Atkinson cycles to lower emissions and increase mpg, about 4%-5%, while still making 301 hp/267 tq on Regular gas. No EPA estimates yet, but could be 26-27 mpg combined.

Hopefully the '21 8A/T has been tuned to behave in Sport mode, a real buzzkill on the otherwise impressive (for a grocery getter) '20 V6 I drove.

Toyota is cutting prices on many '21 Camry models, especially hybrids, while adding content. Why? Civic. Camry is currently behind in the car sales dominance race and had to react. If anyone is interested in a Camry (TRD is selling above plan and aftermarket LSD is available), there could be massive incentives in December.

Cool to have, but it is standard type of power for the motor displacement.

Camry competes directly with the Accord. The Civic and Corolla compete in the same class, so is Toyota discounting all cars because of the Civic? I'm not following.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

It's been there since 2018 MY.

Except on the 2020 Camry V6 according to the toyota.com specs/mechanical/performance/engine page that only shows dual Dual VVT-i compared to the 2020 Avalon page that shows VVT-iW and VVT-i.

Maybe it's a Toyota editing error but I took it to mean VVT-iW is a new 2021 Camry V6 feature as suggested in the press release calling it a "specially developed" system.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/clear-c...ancing-safety/

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Cool to have, but it is standard type of power for the motor displacement.

Camry competes directly with the Accord. The Civic and Corolla compete in the same class, so is Toyota discounting all cars because of the Civic? I'm not following.

Toyota is more into the idea that it's one of the last V6 engines left in the segment instead of big specific power output. But that's why the smooth lazy V6 is legendary, there are lots of owners with over 500K miles on them with only routine maintenance.

It's the right car for the Camry job and maybe will get more aftermarket support with 6,000 TRD's being built each MY that would benefit from an Evora-type supercharger setup that produces well over 400 hp.

The US passenger car industry sales leadership trophy Toyota chases looks at all series of passenger cars regardless of dimensions, weights and capacities. Toyota doesn't want any car of any series muscling in on their bragging rights even if it's in a different segment. It's a corporate obsession and they're throwing all kinds of incentives, content, and price cuts to protect their "Best Selling Car In America" brand.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Toyota is more into the idea that it's one of the last V6 engines left in the segment instead of big specific power output. But that's why the smooth lazy V6 is legendary, there are lots of owners with over 500K miles on them with only routine maintenance.

It's the right car for the Camry job and maybe will get more aftermarket support with 6,000 TRD's being built each MY that would benefit from an Evora-type supercharger setup that produces well over 400 hp.

The US passenger car industry sales leadership trophy Toyota chases looks at all series of passenger cars regardless of dimensions, weights and capacities. Toyota doesn't want any car of any series muscling in on their bragging rights even if it's in a different segment. It's a corporate obsession and they're throwing all kinds of incentives, content, and price cuts to protect their "Best Selling Car In America" brand.

It is not the last, last. Sure, V6s are less common, but there are several midsize sedans with a V6 like the Maxima, Charger and Chrysler 300 or the Challenger and Camaro. Just saying, it is just a heavy sedan with a low-specific-power-output engine. Nothing too exciting.

I'm not really surprised they might be losing ground. The Korean brands and Honda are making more interesting looking cars than Toyota. In fact, I haven't really enjoyed anything Toyota has made besides the twins. I really don't find anything in their vehicle lineup that attractive. Just when I think I might like the LC500 or IS, I see that hourglass grill or something else that kills it for me. Their underpowered, anemic engines don't help the situation. It isn't all bad, but they just miss the mark for me. I would certainly rather buy a Honda Accord Sport 2.0T MT than the Camry V6. Can you even get the Camry in a manual transmission? The Kia K5 GT looks amazing with a 2.5T DCT. I'd even take the looks of the Sonata over the Camry. It's subjective of course.

Gotcha.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

It is not the last, last. Sure, V6s are less common, but there are several midsize sedans with a V6 like the Maxima, Charger and Chrysler 300 or the Challenger and Camaro. Just saying, it is just a heavy sedan with a low-specific-power-output engine. Nothing too exciting.

None of those cars are in the Midsize segment. They're either classified as Large or Sporty two-doors.

I've wanted to drive an Accord Sport M/T but after calling a few big dealers in the PNW, none recall receiving any this year. I'm on their callback list but nada. A nationwide search on a couple shopping sites show zero in stock so wonder what's up?

No M/T for Camry, a disappointment. Also no LSD option that's needed on the V6. The 2020 I drove spun its tires all the way through 1st gear on a hard TRAC-off launch.

If you have time and can find one, demo the TRD. It's surprisingly competent. Not overwhelming or anything, but for an inexpensive midsize sedan with a V6, they engineered a nice kit from chassis bracing, lowering springs, shocks, sways, lightweight wheels, tires, exhaust, a body kit I could live without, some interior cosmetics, and no-charge summer tire upgrade to Potenza RE-050's. All for around $28K after incentives and Costco help.


Edit: Forgot about the bigger 4-pot front brakes on the TRD.

[gymratter]

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Maybe it's a Toyota editing error but I took it to mean VVT-iW is a new 2021 Camry V6 feature as suggested in the press release calling it a "specially developed" system.

Yup, editing error. Every 2GR was a 2GR-FKS starting in 2018.

The specific output of the 2GR is actually not poor, because turbochargers and intercoolers add mass. The K20C should be over 320lbs (compared to the K20A, subtract VTEC, subtract 10 lbs or so for the water cooled aluminum exhaust manifold, add ~50+/-20 for the turbo, intercooler, associated piping and cooling, and direct injection).

The 2GR-FKS should be under 390 lbs (384 for the FSE, add a few lbs for external EGR). The Honda J35 is actually considerably lighter due to having a timing belt instead of a chain, and smaller bores with a shorter rod/stroke ratio.

Of course, you can only eek out maybe 20% more power from these NA engines with tuning and some bolt ons, while getting the K20C past 400hp should be a piece of cake.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Atmo

None of those cars are in the Midsize segment. They're either classified as Large or Sporty two-doors.

I've wanted to drive an Accord Sport M/T but after calling a few big dealers in the PNW, none recall receiving any this year. I'm on their callback list but nada. A nationwide search on a couple shopping sites show zero in stock so wonder what's up?

No M/T for Camry, a disappointment. Also no LSD option that's needed on the V6. The 2020 I drove spun its tires all the way through 1st gear on a hard TRAC-off launch.

If you have time and can find one, demo the TRD. It's surprisingly competent. Not overwhelming or anything, but for an inexpensive midsize sedan with a V6, they engineered a nice kit from chassis bracing, lowering springs, shocks, sways, lightweight wheels, tires, exhaust, a body kit I could live without, some interior cosmetics, and no-charge summer tire upgrade to Potenza RE-050's. All for around $28K after incentives and Costco help.


Edit: Forgot about the bigger 4-pot front brakes on the TRD.

The Maxima is the same size as the Altima, which is the same size as the Camry, but it is just more premium. Actually, the Maxima has a smaller wheelbase:

2020 Camry 193x72x57'' WB 111''
2020 Maxima 193x73x57'' WB 109''

The MSRP for the cheapest V6 Camry is the TRD edition at $31,170. Yes, the Charger and 300 are larger, but the price on the V6 Charger starts at $29,995, and the price on the V6 Chrysler 300 starts at $30,040.

I have no interest in test driving the Camry, or really any midsize sedan. I test drove a Jetta before I got the BRZ, and I thought it was a boat. The Camry makes me regurgitate a little bit in my mouth when I see it. That front bumper reminds me of the predators:

[Atmo]

[QUOTE=Irace86.2.0;3375034]The Maxima is the same size as the Altima, which is the same size as the Camry, but it is just more premium. Actually, the Maxima has a smaller wheelbase:/QUOTE]


The US DOE/EPA divides car segments by passenger and cargo volume in cu. ft. Wheelbase is irrelevant. That's how some Accords and Civic 5Dr wound up in the Large segment while Camaro is stuck in the Subcompact segment. I saw that Maxima got into the Midsize segment along with the only Midsize Accord, the unobtainable (in M/T form) 2.0T Sport/Touring models for 2020.

An LC 500 will be in my garage in a few years as their resale price tanks further. Maybe after I flip the RAV4 Prime. After some success competing in motorsports, I'm more interested in overland photo expeditions and long distance touring and am re-balancing the inventory to suit.


Edit: I meant LC 500, not LS 500.

[gymratter]