max allowable dimensions for door speakers?

[soundman98]

i've been searching with various terms for the last hour or so and haven't found anything other then '6.5" speakers fit in the doors'

currently, it's cold out(37 degree's currently), and i really don't want to spend too much time outside if i don't need to. i mostly fear snapping the plastic clips. they're fragile on a good day...

does anyone know the maximum allowable dimensions of the speaker cut-out in the door metal?

i've found the max depth to be roughly 2" in this thread, but no mention of maximum allowable speaker dimensions
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7843

[Chimera]

I have also wondered this before...

[Vmax911]

Are you asking the depth from the sheet metal until you hit something? Don't forget that there is typically a .75-1" adapter that gives you some extra room.

I am using a 6.5" with a mounting depth of 2.75" and with the adapter ring I have no clearance issues.

I thought I remembered seeing a thread on here where the max speaker depth with adapter was a hair over 3"

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

I think he's looking for mounting diameter as well. Not all 6.5" speakers have the same mounting diameter.

[RickyBobby]

Crutchfield has some useful info.
http://www.crutchfield.com/Car/outfitmycar/car.aspx

"Door speakers

Behind the BRZ's door panels, you'll find 6-3/4", 2-ohm speakers. Removing and replacing them isn't especially difficult, but there are a couple of things you'll want to know before you start.

You'll need to remove the door panel, of course, and while this isn't hard to do, you will want to work carefully and patiently when you're prying the panel away from the door. There are ten clips that hold the door in place, and you don't want to break any of them.

You'd think a set of aftermarket 6-3/4" speakers would fit right in, but that's actually not the case. Better speakers require bigger magnets, and there just isn't room in the BRZ's door. You can install 5-1/4" or 6-1/2" speakers, but even then, you'll need to cut off the back of the plastic factory speaker grille to create enough space for the new speaker. You'll need a mounting bracket and a wiring harness to install the new speaker in the opening, and they're both included free with your Crutchfield speaker purchase."

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_400/All...rs.html?tp=105

[Mr.ac]

If you don't mind cutting sheat metal and making custom mounting brackets anything is possible.

Honestly if your looking to get more bass off the door speakers, just get a sub and amp combo. Hell, you can get a pretty dam good sounding sub system from Walmart for under $200 or less.

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

Agreed. Trying to get real bass from door speakers is a waste of time. Unless your going to use a ported enclosure in each door, you'll never get real bass response at real volume levels without significant amounts of distortion.

[soundman98]

thanks for the responses

i'm looking for the diameter of the hole that the speaker mounts in. depth is really not a major concern.
i'm really hoping to upgrade the doors to 8" woofers if everything will allow for it.

the reason i'm asking is mostly because it's below freezing outside, and i can't just open up the car like i normally would before ordering stuff. at least without frostbite risk..

and fyi-- i've spent a whole lot more then $200 on a sub/amp combo! most people haven't heard of the speakers i run .
80prs deck, pdx v9 amp, peerless xxls aluminum cone 10" sub, peerless hds nomex 6" woofers, and dayton audio 3.5" fullrange mid/tweet.



and for the guys saying you can't get good bass out of the doors-- try sound dampening the doors. that's actually on my to-do list at the same time i replace the speakers, which already reach down to 50hz without complaint. they just lack 'impact' at that depth, which is the reason for the sub. i'm hoping between sound dampening, and the increase in cone size, i can get more impact out of the doors which would better shift the sounds stage towards the front, and rely less on the sub in the trunk.

[Mr.ac]

I get what you want to do, but in the end it's not as good as a subwoofer box. Your pretty much relying on cheap flimsy sheet metal as an enclosure.
If it was me. I'll get the 8" make a custom box that would fit in the huge space where the rear speakers are. Thus solves to shove the box in the trunk.

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

Originally Posted by soundman98

thanks for the responses

i'm looking for the diameter of the hole that the speaker mounts in. depth is really not a major concern.
i'm really hoping to upgrade the doors to 8" woofers if everything will allow for it.

the reason i'm asking is mostly because it's below freezing outside, and i can't just open up the car like i normally would before ordering stuff. at least without frostbite risk..

and fyi-- i've spent a whole lot more then $200 on a sub/amp combo! most people haven't heard of the speakers i run .
80prs deck, pdx v9 amp, peerless xxls aluminum cone 10" sub, peerless hds nomex 6" woofers, and dayton audio 3.5" fullrange mid/tweet.



and for the guys saying you can't get good bass out of the doors-- try sound dampening the doors. that's actually on my to-do list at the same time i replace the speakers, which already reach down to 50hz without complaint. they just lack 'impact' at that depth, which is the reason for the sub. i'm hoping between sound dampening, and the increase in cone size, i can get more impact out of the doors which would better shift the sounds stage towards the front, and rely less on the sub in the trunk.

It's not likely an 8" will be a drop in, especially with most 8" speakers actually being closer to 8.75" (especially raw drivers). FWIW, the Peerless SLS 8" needs a 7" hole for the cut out diameter, and that's the smallest cut out diameter I found while looking at Peerless, SB Acoustics, Silverflute, and ScanSpeak.

FWIW, the reason the Peerless you have now lack impact and depth, is because 50hz is extremely close to the resonant frequency, which is also the largest peak in distortion. The only reason they can play to 50hz at all, is because of cabin gain, as they are 8-9db down at 50hz from their nominal frequency response, and 6db down from where they are at 100hz.

As far as bass from the doors, I've heard just about every imaginable set up out there. I've heard 6.5" speakers in deadened doors, 8" speakers in deadened doors, 10" speakers in deadened doors. Both raw drivers and car audio brands alike. The ONLY door install that impressed me, is Gary Summers C230. He has Morel Supremo's in completely sealed 9 liter fiberglass and aluminum enclosures. EVERY other door I've heard, has had at least some resonance or rattle, no matter how deadened.

That said, what do you plan on using for deadening? I ask, as I've tested most imaginable deadeners out there, objectively, with a calibrated microphone and test rig.

[soundman98]

yea, the main thing is that i don't want to modify the door structure, but believe that i can fit something larger then 6-6.5" drivers, which i would like to do to attempt to reach a little lower/cleaner, because i don't have a reason not to, and one of my door speakers are starting to rattle for some reason, so i need to replace them anyways.

what would you recommend for dampening? i honestly haven't figured that part out yet. it's just as convoluted as the rest of the car audio world-- 3 people might get behind product 1, but then another 3 will step up and say product 1 sucks, and product 2 is soooo much more superior, and the cycle continues on and on with a couple other products.. just like speakers..

currently, i'm kinda leaning towards second skin products--damplifier pro. however because i'm already ordering stuff from parts express, i'm also considering their cascade brand of products.

i'd just rather avoid dynamat, as it seems there's more hype then material there most times.

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

To be honest, dynamat is on par or slightly better performing than second skin in my tests. But, both can be trumped for the same cash outlay. Personally, I'll be using sounddeadenershowdown.com cld tiles, as they've tested the best. The only products that damp vibration better don't hold up to heat nearly as well.

Knukonceptz kolossus damps vibration almost as well, and is cheaper, but has a heat rating much lower. I know people that have used it without failure, but there is one review on amazon that says it failed.

That said, don't take my words alone for perfomance. I'm in Riverside judging sound quality for Springfest, but when I get back this week I'll post the frequency response of the products I listed.

[soundman98]

i'd definitely appreciate some more definitive testing then 'my buddies buddy said it's gud'...







it was warmer today, so opened up the passenger side door.

the hole is 157mm/6.181" in diameter
depth to window from sheet metal is 70mm/2.756"
depth of interior door panel to sheet metal is roughly 45mm/1.771"(speaker angled in door, so slightly more on one side, slightly less on the other side)
no apologies for metric measurements. my first exposure to tools was working on bikes, and everything is metric there, so i almost know it better then imperial..


the rolled down window takes up the top-rear portion of the opening. neodymium motors might bypass it for 'bonus depth', but probably not.

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

I'll get the graphs up tomorrow. Judged 5 cars so far, 9 more to 3. 6 in extreme class with no limitations.