Accelerated Performance 2013 BRZ - FRS Turbo Kit Designing

[jedibow]

Originally Posted by slow_frs

?? efr are instant spool people switch their sc colbalts to efr turbos and make 20 psi all day instantly, and no im not a cobalt fan i dispise them

Yes exactly, 20psi, that is where the efficiency is highest on the EFR turbos, look at the compressor map at the 0.5 pressure ratio range, and what do you see? surge, or 68%, you can get that out of a supercharger. They are not designed for LOW boost operation. the T25 framed turbo he selected is a great choice.

Also remember the ecotech engine was designed for boost, this engine is not.

[Symbiont]

Originally Posted by slow_frs

?? efr are instant spool people switch their sc colbalts to efr turbos and make 20 psi all day instantly, and no im not a cobalt fan i dispise them

I'm no expert, but I think that there is an extensive amount of modification that you would have to do to this engine to run 20 psi.

[yuli8466]

Originally Posted by jedibow

There will not be any lag at all, I had one of these on my sentra, and I reached full spool by 2800 RPM's around 16psi, transient response was amazing, and top end pull was decent.

Good choice on the turbo! the EFR line would be to large (read no useable boost until past 4000 RPM) and they do not like small boost pressure ratios, until we have a bottom end option to say run 20 psi plus they shouldn't be considered...

G

huge horsepower of turbo requires big intercooler, where should we place it?

[jedibow]

Originally Posted by yuli8466

huge horsepower of turbo requires big intercooler, where should we place it?

I think you are asking if you have a built bottom end, and want to run an Borg Warner turbo, where should you mount the intercooler? If I misunderstood let me know, and I'm sorry.

For weight balance purposes a top mount much like subaru already does would make sense, however you would have to deal with transient temperatures under the hood, and heatsoke issues because of this, not to mention that you would raise the cars center of gravity, which is one of its greatest features.

For power purposes a front mount offers fresh air through the front bumper, however it would cause added stress to the cooling system in the car, however if you are going to be spending the money to build the bottom end, then it should be easy to conceive a front mount v-mount setup, much like they use on rx-7s. The drawback for either of these two front mount setups would be added weight to the nose of the car that would effect handling characteristics.

What I would like to see is a rear mounted (near the firewall) water to air intercooler to maintain proper weight distribution, with the heat exchanger mounted in the passenger fender well. I would like to specify that this would add the most amount of weight to the vehicle, but as much of it would be located aft of the front suspension axis it shouldn't effect handling.

All three have benefits, differ in cost, and use.

G

[jedibow]

Originally Posted by jet86

If the disco spud is too laggy I'd suggest to go with the GTX2863r. A size smaller but more efficient and same hp rating. I highly rate the new GTX turbos. All I ever use these days.

This would also be a great choice as it has the anti-surge intake, and a billet compressor wheel, however it is quite a bit more expensive.

G

[jet86]

Originally Posted by jedibow

This would also be a great choice as it has the anti-surge intake, and a billet compressor wheel, however it is quite a bit more expensive.

G

Well worth the extra $$$ IMO. Run a Tial sports stainless v-band exhaust housing. So much lighter, smaller, cleaner and is so much more practical.

[jedibow]

Originally Posted by slow_frs

for those that dont know, making the size of the maf housing smaller makes the ecu read MORE incoming air thus allowing more fuel to be added, as well as it retards timing

One problem, when you decrease airflow into the engine the ECU doesn't retard timing, it actually advances timing because it "thinks" that you are driving in a lower load condition than you actually are, and advancing timing beyond what is allowable in forced induction vehicle ends very badly...

Holes in your pistons, holes in you block, and holes in your wallet

[jedibow]

Don,

I appreciate you being so forthcoming with your details, such as turbo selection, pacakging, and tuning. Keep up the good work, I look forward to what you come up with, and the simplicity of your design is awesome, utilizing factory components, such as the header, stock injectors will definately keep the cost down, and I see you have done you homework on the turbo selection and not gone overboard attempting to get the most power out of the engine you can. I can appreciate turners that exhibit restraint when necessary.

Thank You!

[jedibow]

Originally Posted by jet86

Well worth the extra $$$ IMO. Run a Tial sports stainless v-band exhaust housing. So much lighter, smaller, cleaner and is so much more practical.

I totally agree, my friend has the GTX3076? (I can't remember how they are coding these things now) on his integra and it has been nothing but reliable, quick spooling, and easy to tune around because of the consistent response, and amazing efficiency near the surge limit.

[jet86]

I had a gtx3076r on my rb26/34 drift car, it was instant boost but I maxed the turbo out, now running a gtx4294r and it's amazing. 688kw and still minimal lagg

[yuli8466]

Originally Posted by jedibow

I think you are asking if you have a built bottom end, and want to run an Borg Warner turbo, where should you mount the intercooler? If I misunderstood let me know, and I'm sorry.

For weight balance purposes a top mount much like subaru already does would make sense, however you would have to deal with transient temperatures under the hood, and heatsoke issues because of this, not to mention that you would raise the cars center of gravity, which is one of its greatest features.

For power purposes a front mount offers fresh air through the front bumper, however it would cause added stress to the cooling system in the car, however if you are going to be spending the money to build the bottom end, then it should be easy to conceive a front mount v-mount setup, much like they use on rx-7s. The drawback for either of these two front mount setups would be added weight to the nose of the car that would effect handling characteristics.

What I would like to see is a rear mounted (near the firewall) water to air intercooler to maintain proper weight distribution, with the heat exchanger mounted in the passenger fender well. I would like to specify that this would add the most amount of weight to the vehicle, but as much of it would be located aft of the front suspension axis it shouldn't effect handling.

All three have benefits, differ in cost, and use.

G

Yes, I think many people prefer the 3rd as you would like to.
I just wonder will this method make the intake pipe too long? may be affect the throttle response.

Is it possible to open a cool hole of the bonnet for the intercool(near the firewall) like STI does ?

[wcbjr]

Originally Posted by Don@Accelerated

I'm going to use the stock header. So no crazy expenditures there. I'm planning on fitting this behind the engine.

-Don

There's so much room in front. And it would make cold piping so much easier.

All to avoid creating an exhaust manifold?

[wcbjr]

Originally Posted by yuli8466

I just wonder will this method make the intake pipe too long? may be affect the throttle response.

Nah, flipping the throttle bodies around and shortening the piping on EJ motors doesn't gain much, if any, throttle response. It mainly cleans up the engine bay.

[Don@Accelerated]

Moving it to the front won't make the piping much simpler. IC piping would obviously be a bit shorter, but then the downpipe needs to snake through a bunch of cam pickup sensors. Probably not the best idea at the expense of 2 additional bends of aluminum. The exhaust manifold would add a significant expense to the price. IC aluminum price change maybe $100.

Now when we need to throw some giant turbo on it, we will have exhaust manifolds and will need the additional space.



-Don

Originally Posted by wcbjr

There's so much room in front. And it would make cold piping so much easier.

All to avoid creating an exhaust manifold?