What winter tiers do you guys like?

[DarkPira7e]

Another good tire are the Hankook i-pikes. They're good enough in a 205/60 that I can get around in about 8" of snow. I've driven this car through 3 snowstorm filled Vermont winters; I get the car fluidfilm undercoated each fall (my car has no factory undercoating) and the only rust so far is exhaust.

[Stang70Fastback]

A few things in this thread that I want to correct:

Originally Posted by soundman98

Something to note about winter tires is that any tread under 50% makes them no better than a set of all seasons. Thats part of why i stopped running winter tires after 2 years.

You are making a blanket statement that does not apply to ALL winter tires. The Bridgestone Blizzak WS, for example, are indeed a regular all-season compound once you wear past ~50%, but the General Altimax Arctics are a full winter compound, and do not share that characteristic. To be honest, when your winter tires are worn that far down, it's probably time to replace them anyway.

Originally Posted by soundman98

The other reasons i don't use winter tires anymore is because i now run all seasons on the car(first 2 years were the oem summer tires), and my location near chicago, the roads are only ever bad enough to require winter tires for 1-2 days after snowfall. After that, they clear and salt the roads so heavily that the pavement is completely dry, and there is no grip benefit from them. I wore my winter tires out completely due to running them on dry pavement for way to long(nov-feb, averaged about 10 days of snowfall those years).

I'm not entirely in agreement with that viewpoint (and I live in the Chicago area as well.) People often think about winter tires as things that ONLY benefit you during a snow storm, but that is far from an accurate statement. The roads can be completely clear of snow, but if the temperature is cold enough for ice to form, a winter tire is going to offer significantly more grip on that random patch of ice than an all-season tire will.

Also, it's worth pointing out that if your car is a daily driver, then on those handful of days when you have to commute during a storm, the rather significantly increased grip you'll have with a set of winters is more than worth it. Adverse conditions are when the roads are the most dangerous, both because of your lack of grip, and because of everyone else driving like a moron. THOSE are the times when I want uncompromising grip from my tires.

As for wearing them out prematurely driving on dry pavement... they are called WINTER tires, not SNOW tires, and won't wear out instantly on dry pavement. Not sure what kind of driving you are doing to wear them out, but you are not driving them normally, if that is the case. I get at least 3 winter seasons (running them from Oct/Nov to April) on mine before I replace them - and at that point they still have a decent amount of tread; just not the deep tread that you want on a winter tire for heavier snow and slush.

Originally Posted by humfrz

Just get some good all-season tires.

If the snow is so deep, that you need snow tires, you shouldn't be driving an 86 on those roads, anyway.

If it's icy, you shouldn't be driving any vehicle, anyway.

We are going to have to disagree on this for several reasons. Deep snow or not, winter [not snow] tires offer a huge advantage over all-seasons. Winter tires aren't ONLY for deep snow driving. They are for ANY snow driving... or ice driving... or even wet/dry pavement in extremely cold (winter) temperatures.

Your "if it's icy" statement sounds like something someone would say who has never lived in a winter environment. Ice storm? Sure, stay home. Regular sunny day with some snow that melted, and then froze on the road surface? Good luck ever getting to work all winter long if you're going to stay home so long as that is a possibility. Ice happens in the winter. Having some winter tires on your car that provide MUCH more grip on ice than all seasons is always a good option for that random patch of ice at an intersection... or if you DO get caught in a freak snow squall.

Driving these vehicles in wintery conditions is no more dangerous than driving any other vehicle in wintery conditions. A BRZ with winter tires is a much safer vehicle to drive in snow and ice than an SUV on all seasons. It will stop better, and turn better.

I'd like to recommend everyone watch this TireRack video, which demonstrates the very significant difference between all-seasons, and winter tires:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s[/ame]


And as another reference, here are three videos I strung together from one of my actual commutes to work, to show the kinds of winter conditions I was able to safely commute to work in. Keep in mind that my car is lowered, on coilovers, with a front lip. I run General Altimax Arctic tires. (The sliding around in the first clip is me intentionally having a bit of fun on the entrance ramp :P)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0wAwDQp6Ek[/ame]


Take it from someone who has many, many years' experience driving in the snow. This car is fine to drive in adverse weather when properly equipped, and winter tires are absolutely worth the investment, and will afford you an added layer of safety, and peace of mind that all seasons simply cannot achieve.

[mrg666]

Dunlop SP Winter Sport 4D

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Driving these vehicles in wintery conditions is no more dangerous than driving any other vehicle in wintery conditions. A BRZ with winter tires is a much safer vehicle to drive in snow and ice than an SUV on all seasons. It will stop better, and turn better.

As much as I want to believe this is true just to feel good about my car, it is not true. A 6000lb Suburban will be so much more reliable on snow compared to a 86/BRZ with any snow tire one can choose. I know by experience, there is no space for argument.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

A few things in this thread that I want to correct:

WOW! That was a well done dissertation -

You stated: "Take it from someone who has many, many years' experience driving in the snow".

I'll put up my years of transporting myself on snow and ice covered roads against yours.

I have been driving vehicles for about 70 years now. Of those years where it snows, 20 years in Ohio, 2 years in Germany, 7 years in Connecticut, 7 years in Missouri and 25 years in Washington. Guess what, I've never owned a set of snow tires.

Plus, I was operating in the snow waaaaaay back when we had only one horsepower and no "snow shoes", but, we did have four "wheel" drive, but only two "wheels" drove at a time. Yes, the roads were pre conditioned with dirt, sand and gravel.

I remember the time back in 1966, when I was driving across the Austrian Alps and got snowed in down in this valley - but, that's another story -


humfrz

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Dunlop SP Winter Sport 4D



As much as I want to believe this is true just to feel good about my car, it is not true. A 6000lb Suburban will be so much more reliable on snow compared to a 86/BRZ with any snow tire one can choose. I know by experience, there is no space for argument.

having driven a suburban and a brz in the snow, i say they're about equal. the brz can dart and stop. the suburban pushes through like a crack-adled elephant.

the suburban taught me about intertia. the brz taught me about grip.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I have been driving vehicles for about 70 years now. Of those years where it snows, 20 years in Ohio, 2 years in Germany, 7 years in Connecticut, 7 years in Missouri and 25 years in Washington. Guess what, I've never owned a set of snow tires.

Cars never used to come with seat belts either, but I bet you use them now...

I'm not saying the car can't manage to get around on all season tires in the winter; I'm saying if you live in the snow belt, you're a fool if you drive around without snow tires. The relatively small cash outlay and minor inconvenience of storage is far outweighed by the metric crapton of improvement in how the car handles. It's the same as driving around on bald tires in the summer during the rainy season...you're unnecessarily risking your own life and more importantly, others' around you.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Cars never used to come with seat belts either, but I bet you use them now...

I'm not saying the car can't manage to get around on all season tires in the winter; I'm saying if you live in the snow belt, you're a fool if you drive around without snow tires. The relatively small cash outlay and minor inconvenience of storage is far outweighed by the metric crapton of improvement in how the car handles. It's the same as driving around on bald tires in the summer during the rainy season...you're unnecessarily risking your own life and more importantly, others' around you.

Good point there, venturaII -

Yep, cars didn't used to have sealed beam headlights, nor radial tires, nor dual braking systems, nor ABS, nor power brakes, nor power steering, nor ESC, nor safety glass and we drove around on half bald retreaded tires on gravel roads. Damn, it's a wonder some of us are still alive -




humfrz

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Cars never used to come with seat belts either, but I bet you use them now...

I'm not saying the car can't manage to get around on all season tires in the winter; I'm saying if you live in the snow belt, you're a fool if you drive around without snow tires. The relatively small cash outlay and minor inconvenience of storage is far outweighed by the metric crapton of improvement in how the car handles. It's the same as driving around on bald tires in the summer during the rainy season...you're unnecessarily risking your own life and more importantly, others' around you.

my experience isn't this at all. you make winter tires sound like a godsend.

my experience is that winter tires are 120% of what all seasons are. i will never say they are comparable, or equal. but i will say that the minor advantage is not enough of an increase for myself.

i don't care about the storage. i don't care about the hassle of changing tires. i have equipment and space for those things. what i do care about is performance. the car still skids. the car still slides. it might slide at 15 mph instead of 10 mph, but it still slides.

that is not a miraculous difference like you imply. that is a difference of altering driving techniques. i've chosen to alter my driving technique instead of installing/maintaining dedicated snow tires. not being an idiot keeps me out of ditches. leaving space keeps me from rear ending other cars.

[venturaII]

All seasons are great at doing everything mediocre. Tires have too much of an impact on the overall driving experience for me not to buy the right ones for the job.

[why?]

Originally Posted by soundman98

my experience isn't this at all. you make winter tires sound like a godsend.

my experience is that winter tires are 120% of what all seasons are. i will never say they are comparable, or equal. but i will say that the minor advantage is not enough of an increase for myself.

i don't care about the storage. i don't care about the hassle of changing tires. i have equipment and space for those things. what i do care about is performance. the car still skids. the car still slides. it might slide at 15 mph instead of 10 mph, but it still slides.

that is not a miraculous difference like you imply. that is a difference of altering driving techniques. i've chosen to alter my driving technique instead of installing/maintaining dedicated snow tires. not being an idiot keeps me out of ditches. leaving space keeps me from rear ending other cars.

That is not my experience at all. I drive on General all season tires right now, and was stuck on them in about 5 or 6 inches of snow down here in NC last year. They were atrocious. The main road out of town where I was working was not touched. I was driving sideways down the entire thing at about 20 mph. Any faster and the rear end started to rotate around, any slower and it started to get stuck. They made it, but it was not my best experience in the snow.

Up in Mass I had General snow tires. I was caught in 3 different freak blizzards that year driving home from my parents house. The drive was about 90 minutes or so. In spots on back roads it was almost a total white out. If I hadn't driven the roads a million times before I would have had to stop. None of the roads were treated because snow was not in the forecast. My car was absolutely rock solid. No skidding, no sliding, no anything. Red lights and stop signs were not a problem at all. The car was so amazingly planted I was passing the few people in massive 4 wheel drive SUV's because they were all afraid of the conditions. I assume they were all on all season tires. For me it was truly night and day. There is a rumor that General is using designs and plans from older Nokian tires. It certainly felt that way to me.

Everyone's experiences are different. For me if I had to face constant threat of snow I would absolutely mount snow tires. Heck even down here in NC I'll mount them during the cold months, they still handle the cold better than the all seasons do.

[Stang70Fastback]

Anyone who says that winter tires are only a slight benefit over all-seasons has either never driven on winter tires, or had some weird-ass experience with them... or drove a performance winter tire, and not a proper winter tire. Performance winter tires are one thing, but true winter tires are in their own league as far as snow and ice grip, and the difference isn't marginal.

Watch the first of the two videos I posted earlier if you don't believe me.

[Nevermore]

I love my Hankook i-pike snow tires, though I think I have an old model so I have no clue if the new model is just as good, but! These things seem to handle better than the stock tires in most situations, even warm weather. Winter around here can be finicky so I often find myself driving in 30 degree weather one day and 60 degree weather the next. These tires don't care what temp it is, they just work. And if there's snow on the ground? They're more than happy to cut through it.

[Westen86]

I bought Falken EuroWinters and theyre pretty good. I went with these because in WI there are long periods of dry winter conditions. No snow, just cold and salt. These claim to be better in dry conditions compared to a focused winter like a HAKKAPELIITTA. I believe mine are V speed rated also.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by soundman98

my experience is that winter tires are 120% of what all seasons are. i will never say they are comparable, or equal. but i will say that the minor advantage is not enough of an increase for myself.

In TireRack's testing, the car equipped with winter tires stops in literally HALF the distance of the car with all-season tires on an icy surface...

Originally Posted by soundman98

i've chosen to alter my driving technique instead of installing/maintaining dedicated snow tires. not being an idiot keeps me out of ditches. leaving space keeps me from rear ending other cars.

Defensive driving is always the most important aspect in preventing an accident, but no amount of good driving can make up for a lack of grip in ALL situations. Even the best, most defensive driver cannot account for every eventuality, and having twice as much traction can sometimes be the difference-maker. I, for one, also pride myself in driving defensively... but that doesn't mean I also don't want to have twice as much grip in winter conditions