4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[totopo]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

That is a silly statement in itself. We're not talking about 10s of thousands of dollars here. So a couple grand is immaterial in the comparison.

You're example is also silly.

Hmm, lets see compare a z4 to a sedan... yes because they are very similar.

I'm saying Comparing lets say a C-250 to a M235i BMW. Thats an asinine comparison. A fair comparison would be a c-250 to a 228i.

Eep typo. I meant z4 28i vs z4 35is

[totopo]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Reason why is that you want to keep the comparison as apples to apples as possible. There is no additional performance version of the FR-S so why try to compare it vs an uprated performance Miata? Why to skew the conclusion in favor of the Miata of course.

Think "base" Porsche Cayman vs. Cayman GT4. They both say Cayman, right? Same car technically... Nope, not close.

Ignoring the existence of different trims is kind of numbingly retarded. Why are twins owners so insecure about their own cars that they are hoping the Miata is slower?

So when you look at the Genesis coupe you arent allowed to look at the 3.8? When you look at a Mustang you are only allowed to compare the v6 and not the GT?

So given your exampke you arent allowed to compare the gt4 to anything because it isnt a base trim? That is retarded.

"its not fair cause the frs doesnt have a sports trim" well whose fault is that? Mazda's? You equip bilsteins from the factory, thats foul play, wahhhhhh. Grow up. These are all cars you can get off the show room floor, of course they should be compared. WITH THE PRICE DIFFERENCE INCLUDED.

[tahdizzle]

@totopo

That's not what I am saying at all. What I AM saying is, its not fair to compare lets say a gt500 mustang vs a base c6 vette. The fair comparison would be a gt500 vs. a c6 z06 or zr1 corvette (I personally think the base c6 vette does certain things better than a gt500 though).

Or a GT mustang vs a 1le camaro. The more fair comparison would be a GT mustang Vs. an SS camaro.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by totopo

Ignoring the existence of different trims is kind of numbingly retarded. Why are twins owners so insecure about their own cars that they are hoping the Miata is slower?

So when you look at the Genesis coupe you arent allowed to look at the 3.8? When you look at a Mustang you are only allowed to compare the v6 and not the GT?

So given your exampke you arent allowed to compare the gt4 to anything becausemit isnt a base trim? That is retarded.

"its not fair cause the frs doesnt have a sports trim" well whose fault is that? Mazda's? You equip bilsteins from the factory, thats foul play, wahhhhhh. Grow up. These are all cars you can get off the shoroim floor, of course they should be compared. WITH THE PRICE DIFFERENCE INCLUDED.

The twins do have trims. But for some odd reason people ignore them. BRZ tS vs a club miata...

How bout that?

There is more done to the Club miata than slapping some shocks on them. You should look it up.

Anyways. Just because its a "trim" of a car. Does not mean its the same car. STi was a trim of the WRX and until recently the WRX was a trim of the Impreza.

I doubt anyone would disagree with me when I say an STi is not an Impreza.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

The twins do have trims. But for some odd reason people ignore them. BRZ tS vs a club miata...

How bout that?

There is more done to the Club miata than slapping some shocks on them. You should look it up.

Anyways. Just because its a "trim" of a car. Does not mean its the same car. STi was a trim of the WRX and until recently the WRX was a trim of the Impreza.

I doubt anyone would disagree with me when I say an STi is not an Impreza.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

@totopo

That's not what I am saying at all. What I AM saying is, its not fair to compare lets say a gt500 mustang vs a base c6 vette. The fair comparison would be a gt500 vs. a c6 z06 or zr1 corvette (I personally think the base c6 vette does certain things better than a gt500 though).

Or a GT mustang vs a 1le camaro. The more fair comparison would be a GT mustang Vs. an SS camaro.

Why the hell not compare all of them. The important thing is the price.

Current miata sport: 23k
Current miata club: 27k
Fr-s: 25k
Brz tS: 37k (Japan only)

Why is it not fair to compare the Miata club to the basically same price brz? When people here talk about the 370z and compare price they always say the 370z sports is more expensive because its around 30k and ignore the base which is around 27k these days. People here go through all kind of mental gymnastics to discount any non twin car.

[strat61caster]

trololololol

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Now that we have a clear understanding of what you are SPECULATING at, I can continue to SPECULATE that I don't think it will be any faster than the out-going NC miata.

FTFY



Edit: The improvements I posted are not speculation, the result absolutely is between both of us.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by totopo

Ignoring the existence of different trims is kind of numbingly retarded. Why are twins owners so insecure about their own cars that they are hoping the Miata is slower?

So when you look at the Genesis coupe you arent allowed to look at the 3.8? When you look at a Mustang you are only allowed to compare the v6 and not the GT?

So given your exampke you arent allowed to compare the gt4 to anything because it isnt a base trim? That is retarded.

"its not fair cause the frs doesnt have a sports trim" well whose fault is that? Mazda's? You equip bilsteins from the factory, thats foul play, wahhhhhh. Grow up. These are all cars you can get off the show room floor, of course they should be compared. WITH THE PRICE DIFFERENCE INCLUDED.

@totopo
1. You're not going to get very far in life insulting people when you disagree with them, especially on little stuff like this bench racing.

2. I don't know anyone that would call a +1 wheel size increase, uprated tires, Bilstein shocks an a LSD, improved front & rear splitters and $3000 to the base price apples to apples. Most importantly, there's been no "club" version of the ND Miata announced. Do you think that the base ND will come with all the above? Maybe some bits, maybe none. The club Miata still doesn't represent the car most people buy, instead a specialty package to make up some of the base models shortcomings. If that existed in the '86 world would you accept it? What if that included 12 lbs of boost? Still apples to apples? You might not agree with any of this logic, and that's ok. Just try to keep it civil.

@totopo and @tahdizzle Yes, there are cosmetic variants of the FR-S/BRZ but not performance variants. That's why people don't really bring up series Blue, Monogram, etc.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by totopo

Why the hell not compare all of them. The important thing is the price.

Current miata sport: 23k
Current miata club: 27k
Fr-s: 25k
Brz tS: 37k (Japan only)

Why is it not fair to compare the Miata club to the basically same price brz? When people here talk about the 370z and compare price they always say the 370z sports is more expensive because its around 30k and ignore the base which is around 27k these days. People here go through all kind of mental gymnastics to discount any non twin car.

There are many Japan only Miatas, which are all pretty much Club miatas with some cosmetics. I do not feel it is unfair to compare a japan only miata to a japan only brz.

[strat61caster]

Club Sport Miata as tested in the linked 2013 article: $27,950
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited: $27,495

Maybe the different spring rates would help the BRZ win the lateral g test...

[tahdizzle]

@strat61caster

By saying "I don't think", it automatically implies speculation.

The redundancy award goes to you my friend.

No one claimed that what you posted about the miata was incorrect. Only thing that was said was you were speculating that the miata will be faster than the outgoing one.

You regurgitating stuff from publications which NONE say that the ND miata IS FASTER THAN THE NC MIATA.

You are GUESSING/ASSUMING/SUPPOSING however you want to say it. But just because its a little lighter (yes a little lighter) and has 10 Ft*lbs more torque (guess HP doesnt' really matter in 0-60) it HAS to be faster than the old one.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Club Sport Miata as tested in the linked 2013 article: $27,950
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited: $27,495

Maybe the different spring rates would help the BRZ win the lateral g test...

Brilliant, compare the BRZ luxury option to the Miata performance edition. That just might work.

BRZ limited is not even close to a base car. But I'm sure the BRZ limited's dual zone climate, HIDs and leather seats made up for the Miata Club Edition's Bilstein shocks, Limited slip diff, splitters, and uprated wheels and tires. A base FR-S costs $25,700 in 2013. Let me mod up to MX-5s $27,495 and the Miata Club gets smoked every time. Apples to apples or nothing.

[totopo]

Aren't we car enthusiasts here? It's like when your non car friends go, what's faster, a bmw or Porsche? isn't that infuriating? WHICH BMW AND WHICH PORSCHE.

so in the same way, why the he'll are you interested in trying to say "the twins are faster/slower than a miata". is it that hard to add the qualifier base or club? Like no one will be able to understand the difference? Why are you so afraid that another car may be faster? Is that why you bought the car? The entire point of the twins was to forgoe track times for fun.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by totopo

Aren't we car enthusiasts here? It's like when your non car friends go, what's faster, a bmw or Porsche? isn't that infuriating? WHICH BMW AND WHICH PORSCHE.

so in the same way, why the he'll are you interested in trying to say "the twins are faster/slower than a miata". is it that hard to add the qualifier base or club? Like no one will be able to understand the difference? Why are you so afraid that another car may be faster? Is that why you bought the car? The entire point of the twins was to forgoe track times for fun.

I think in this forum it's generally understood that both the Miata and 86 were built with fun in mind first. However the point being debated here turned to "speed". In a conversation about speed, comparisons will inevitably be made, so the next question is "is this a fair comparison".

Miata "fun" edition = base
86 "fun" edition = base

Miata "performance" edition = club
86 "performance" edition = non-existant because, paraphrased from Tadasan "you make it yourself with the help of the aftermarket".

I also thought this point was also well understood about the 86. The aftermarket will provide the performance people individually desire, not the factory. That's been stated and repeated many times. So that's why the most reasonable way to compare performance of these cars is to compare base models.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by totopo

Aren't we car enthusiasts here? It's like when your non car friends go, what's faster, a bmw or Porsche? isn't that infuriating? WHICH BMW AND WHICH PORSCHE.

so in the same way, why the he'll are you interested in trying to say "the twins are faster/slower than a miata". is it that hard to add the qualifier base or club? Like no one will be able to understand the difference? Why are you so afraid that another car may be faster? Is that why you bought the car? The entire point of the twins was to forgoe track times for fun.

The better question is, why are people so against comparing a base Miata to a base FR-S?

And why are they so against comparing a BRZ tS to a Club Miata (both can be had in Japan so it is apples and apples.)