Unpopular Opinion: Interesting read..

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

If it had any more power my drivers license would certainly be in jeopardy. As it is I can push it a bit and have fun without being too far outside the acceptable range.

I got pulled over so many times in this car. It's now just a weekend/track car lol

[Apex_BRZ]

I got pulled over so many times in this car. It's now just a weekend/track car lol

I have no issues at all with the car not having a ton of power, and really only have a little fun low speed twisty backroads or on ramps. But, I'll never understand those that zoom around and run it up to the limiter all the time. The car is just too much of a turd and I get bored waiting for it to accelerate. I get zero satisfaction from the feeling or sound. On a track though, it's fantastic!

Originally Posted by Da Breeze

I wonder if people who drop $500,000 to a million on a classic Ferrari that is about as fast as the BRZ have the same debate. I doubt it. They appreciate the car for what it is. I don't understand why that is so difficult to do with a car that only costs $25,000. The problem with power is that for some there is never enough. And I am not going to address this in terms of track use. If you are only using this car on the street, there is enough power to do anything that needs to be done from a legal standpoint.

This is a very interesting thought, I'd actually never considered it that way.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

I have no issues at all with the car not having a ton of power, and really only have a little fun low speed twisty backroads or on ramps. But, I'll never understand those that zoom around and run it up to the limiter all the time. The car is just too much of a turd and I get bored waiting for it to accelerate. I get zero satisfaction from the feeling or sound. On a track though, it's fantastic!



This is a very interesting thought, I'd actually never considered it that way.

I'm talkin just doing the same shit I do in my Accord. Cruising 70 in the left on the highway (50mph zone).

Once because "i looked like was going pretty fast"

That type of thing

[pfaffendorn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have asked the question of "why do you want more power?" about 20 times and have received one answer. The fun part is that there is no wrong answer but people still cannot say more than "because it is under-powered" which does not say why they want more.
People want it to track? Great; a perfect reason. Feel they can't merge without it? Cool; I don't know how they are driving but still fine. Want bragging rights and Facebook likes? Still a valid reason no matter what anybody says. The response of "it is slow and underpowered" is not, however, a fact nor a reason to want more.

When I was a young guy, we all lusted after the small, light coupes and roadsters, usually British, with tiny engines. They were sports cars -- they zipped around corners like nobody's business, made a pleasing "braap" sound, had manual convertible tops like lawn chairs you had to be rescued from, and often no side windows, just plastic sheets with snaps. Very few affordable ones with even a straight six. Sure, there were domestic marques with those legendary numbers: 283, 327, 413, 427 and on up, but many of us just couldn't afford them.

But we were rich in choices; now the category (scuze me, "segment") consists of the MX5 and now the twins. And what a pot of jam we have fallen in to have them. But are we grateful? Some of us are, but large numbers of us bring dreams of clouds of screaming rubber smoke and 0-60 in 3 seconds and who cares what the tires and gasoline cost. Those expectations are fine, as Tcoat says, but we can't bring them to the twins. They are what they are, and they arise from an honored tradition, and I feel redeemed to be fortunate enough to own one at last.

Sure, I'm an old fart whose youth is gone. I've never fit in anyway. But I still have spirit, and a lead foot, too. And despite all the complaining about what an FRS or BRZ supposedly can't do, they do most of those things quite well. After six months of driving, I'm still blown away by how fast, flat, and smooth it takes curves without a squeak, maybe just a yawn. And when it's time to merge onto a crowded freeway and I see my little opening, I can just floor it without even downshifting and I'm there (half the time, I overshoot it and windup on the shoulder anyway: "How did it get so far behind me?") So, have fun modding to your taste, just don't call it correcting the designers' "mistakes." If the twins had appeared among us in 1968, we would have sworn that the mothership had dropped them on us, and we would have bowed in gratitude.

Everybody has their expectations and desires; the housewife thinks she needs that Hummer, while I think it's a waste of many kinds of resources. In 1970, I wanted a "Z car." Now I have the new "Z" and I sure am glad of it.

Forgive me, I talk too much -- but I don't think that's ever going to change!




PS: Just for fun -- a few specs on one of the 2-seat roadsters considered as one of the more powerful and desirable British sports cars in the moderate price range in the mid 1960s.

Austin-Healey 3000 Mk III (1965-1968)

2549 lb
2.9 L in-line 6 (NA)
148 hp, 173 ft-lb
5-sp MT w/OD
18 mpg
0-60 mph 8.4 sec
Top speed 119 mph

In comparison, the legendary (and rather more expensive) Jaguar XK-E of 1965 boasted:

2900 lb
4.2 L in-line 6 (NA)
265 hp, 283 ft-lb
4-sp MT
15 mpg
0-60 mph 7.0 sec
Top speed 150 mph
(Do these accel and speed numbers sound a little familiar?)

[Da Breeze]

Like you, my benchmark for sports cars were cars like the Datsun 280z, which I was lucky to own way back when. With a 0-60 time around 8 seconds, which was fast in the late seventies, I certainly do not feel like the BRZ is slow in comparison. I realize there are many cars that are faster, including the WRX, I don't really care. I just like the way the BRZ feels, and challenges me to be a better driver, where a faster car just requires putting the foot down.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by pfaffendorn

Large doses of awesome

I wish I could still find another Opel like I had in high school. The Manta and i had some great times. These two are clean!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoomO9MJdUQ"]Opel Manta A.... - YouTube[/ame]

This is more like what I was doing, though.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXr2qaEvlrM"]Opel Manta Turbo LET Mannheim - YouTube[/ame]

You don't need to boost it to slide it around, trust me. I was drifting in 1989, bishes! I just didn't know that's what it was called. When I got to Japan and saw that, I went.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I wish I could still find another Opel like I had in high school. The Manta and i had some great times. These two are clean!

This is more like what I was doing, though.

You don't need to boost it to slide it around, trust me. I was drifting in 1989, bishes! I just didn't know that's what it was called. When I got to Japan and saw that, I went.

Back in my day we called it
WHEEEEEE shitshitshitshitshitshit

[themadscientist]

We had a big mall and when it would snow really bad, oh, Canada, right, I think you would call it "a light dusting," they would shut the mall down, but not the parking lot and it was huge. I would slide around the place slaloming between the light poles and circling them at full counter lock laughing my ass off. It was good training, really. I could put that 72 German import with all 90 screaming ponies an the open diff anywhere I wanted to.

There wasn't a "scene" there wasn't any internet, the cops didn't really seem to give a shit and nobody got hurt. Times were simpler and more fun IMO. Sorry kids. You have more than we did, but I would argue, less.

[yamrossi]

Originally Posted by pfaffendorn

When I was a young guy, we all lusted after the small, light coupes and roadsters, usually British, with tiny engines. They were sports cars -- they zipped around corners like nobody's business, made a pleasing "braap" sound, had manual convertible tops like lawn chairs you had to be rescued from, and often no side windows, just plastic sheets with snaps. Very few affordable ones with even a straight six. Sure, there were domestic marques with those legendary numbers: 283, 327, 413, 427 and on up, but many of us just couldn't afford them.

But we were rich in choices; now the category (scuze me, "segment") consists of the MX5 and now the twins. And what a pot of jam we have fallen in to have them. But are we grateful? Some of us are, but large numbers of us bring dreams of clouds of screaming rubber smoke and 0-60 in 3 seconds and who cares what the tires and gasoline cost. Those expectations are fine, as Tcoat says, but we can't bring them to the twins. They are what they are, and they arise from an honored tradition, and I feel redeemed to be fortunate enough to own one at last.

Sure, I'm an old fart whose youth is gone. I've never fit in anyway. But I still have spirit, and a lead foot, too. And despite all the complaining about what an FRS or BRZ supposedly can't do, they do most of those things quite well. After six months of driving, I'm still blown away by how fast, flat, and smooth it takes curves without a squeak, maybe just a yawn. And when it's time to merge onto a crowded freeway and I see my little opening, I can just floor it without even downshifting and I'm there (half the time, I overshoot it and windup on the shoulder anyway: "How did it get so far behind me?") So, have fun modding to your taste, just don't call it correcting the designers' "mistakes." If the twins had appeared among us in 1968, we would have sworn that the mothership had dropped them on us, and we would have bowed in gratitude.

Everybody has their expectations and desires; the housewife thinks she needs that Hummer, while I think it's a waste of many kinds of resources. In 1970, I wanted a "Z car." Now I have the new "Z" and I sure am glad of it.

Forgive me, I talk too much -- but I don't think that's ever going to change!




PS: Just for fun -- a few specs on one of the 2-seat roadsters considered as one of the more powerful and desirable British sports cars in the moderate price range in the mid 1960s.

Austin-Healey 3000 Mk III (1965-1968)

2549 lb
2.9 L in-line 6 (NA)
148 hp, 173 ft-lb
5-sp MT w/OD
18 mpg
0-60 mph 8.4 sec
Top speed 119 mph

In comparison, the legendary (and rather more expensive) Jaguar XK-E of 1965 boasted:

2900 lb
4.2 L in-line 6 (NA)
265 hp, 283 ft-lb
4-sp MT
15 mpg
0-60 mph 7.0 sec
Top speed 150 mph
(Do these accel and speed numbers sound a little familiar?)

So even a car as old as the Healy had more torque than the BRZ????

Lol..Just kidding...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by yamrossi

So even a car as old as the Healy had more torque than the BRZ????

Lol..Just kidding...

I know you were joking but I'm most annoyed listening to the torque whiners.

They need to learn to drive smoothly with the tach needle pointed straight up, where it belongs.

[pfaffendorn]

Thank you, guys. That was fun!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I know you were joking but I'm most annoyed listening to the torque whiners.

They need to learn to drive smoothly with the tach needle pointed straight up, where it belongs.

And forget that a slight dip shows on a dyno sheet. Even when not driving with the needle straight up I have never once felt that the "dip" interfered with what I wanted to do. I am not even convinced I would have detected it existed without reading about it.

[themadscientist]

That dip is bullshit. There is ZERO reason for it to be there. If something as simple as slapping a UEL manifold on the car eliminates it then the car should roll off the assembly line that way.

The dip is a problem, albeit, one that can be driven around, but it shouldn't be there. Coming from two stroke bikes and laggy old-school turbos I know how to deal with it and actually kind of enjoy feeling the car "come on the pipe", but I can appreciate people's frustration about it.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

That dip is bullshit. There is ZERO reason for it to be there.

Mmmm, I'm not so sure about that. Not saying you're wrong but I seriously doubt it was an accident.

I come from the same world as you. Nothing wrong with a little flat spot.