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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 11-20-2020, 05:24 AM   #1
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Angry New 2022 BRZ - Italian approach....

Small premise:
I love the American people and the United States, I worked there for one year in my youth. It's a side of the world that I love and without the American people who liberated us from the Nazis we wouldn't have gained freedom in Europe. You are for the modern world what the Romans were in ancient one.


I have seen the photographs of the new BRZ and I have to say that many of us in Italy were surprised negatively.
About the Japan style it seems that all reference to the purity and cleanliness of the lines has been lost.
It is evident that SoA's presentation makes it in fact designed, born and built for Americans.
Without taking anything away but the world design car is Italian, German French and also Japanese. And it always has been. Japanese design is a world apart and well represents culture and the way of that life.
In Europe, moreover, the automotive world has long been committed to reducing emissions and the BRZ/GT86 in several countries also pays a very high surcharge on purchase (In Italy 1200 euros) and maintenance (France) very high. Some countries then tax the BRZ highly (Norway and Sweden), we are not at Hong Kong levels but very close.
Let's see some impression.
I'm very puzzled.
First of all, it is presented on the market for the American market, then by SoA, Subaru of America. The second world market for Subaru.
So we're not talking about a global JDM model coming to the US market.
Subaru on the US market is a major competitor, almost monopolist of real AWD (see Forester, sales champion in the US market).
That said, stylistically it is evident that Japanese look has nothing even if the touch-ups have made them.
The front looks like a slimmed-down, clumsy Panamera, as wide as a catfish's mouth.
The side overhang tilts the muzzle a lot from the back. The belt line seems to be higher and the side skirts are massive and vulgar.
The stylistically speaking fender vents are commendable but they results to dirty the door profile and here we are not on a GT-R. Only scenes from Fast 'n Furious but power ZERO. The rear fenders are pronounced almost to accommodate 255/35/19.


But there aren't 520 HP


The rear is perhaps the best part stylistically successful even if it seems to see a Mercedes coupe. Really tall, almost like an AWD.

Beautiful rear lights, license plate position from Hyundai.

In short, it is all represented the world of American Mods that 9 times out of 10 for us Europeans are not appreciated in elegance, without any reference to Tommy Kaira Style.
It is infinitely much less aggressive and elegant than the previous MY13-16 series, the more swollen it seems to be.
Interior.
This is where you see all the American spirit in setting up the interior, from a mixed Camaro reception to Toyota (dashboard overhang) and Mercedes Benz Class A. Cyclopic Head Unit, giant climate vents, HU there in the middle of the dashboard seems a late ’70 Brionvega TV (MoMA) and the push start button randomly thrown into the climate section, why not to put it on the steering wheel ? no, too easy? Too much race?.
No, I wouldn't say no. There are already too many buttons on the steering wheel. (maybe copy Porsche a little?)
The dashboard constructively lost the simplicity and essentiality typical of race Japan design. I think it also costs more constructively. (too many profile swings like new Yaris).
Really horrible.
You can say anything you want but it's not a Japanese.
Born, designed, built for Americans.
It has no mood and no emotional transport and no real appeal to the essentiality and minimality that a Japanese has in this segment.
I leave out the mechanical part because he said little about it. For the engine, it is already "proven" in Europe and the aspirate of others (e.g. Nissan) has not had much success and I doubt that it will ever be homologated due to emissions. If it were, for us Europeans, it would be even higher in terms of insurance costs and their stamp duty. Already in half of Europe, the BRZ/GT86 pays high taxes precisely for emissions (see Italy). For 28 hp more maybe the game was not worth.
However, the models that with the restyling have made a thud in Europe there are striking examples and I do not list them. As for the price, the last with ecotax touched in the dealers (I am talking about the high editions that are in Europe) the price of 33,500 euros. If they exceed this figure, in Europe a car with 35 thousand buckets excluding surcharges (France is no less) will be unsellable.
Last note: the digitally cockpits to be copied are those of Ferrari and (limited) Porsche not Ford EU...... or Citroen.
The real plus of the BRZ/GT86 was the price accessibility and the adequate power to have fun with just over 26k dollars while the world of coupe required at least 45k.
I wouldn't buy it today, ever. A real stylistic disappointment.
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Old 11-20-2020, 06:15 AM   #2
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:34 AM   #3
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I have seen the photographs of the new BRZ and I have to say that many of us in Italy were surprised negatively.
I guess if you want to take away something positive from the Gen2 BRZ is that there are no plans to bring it to Europe. Your only hope is that Toyota will bring the 86 to your shores and have a more appealing front end.
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:56 AM   #4
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I guess if you want to take away something positive from the Gen2 BRZ is that there are no plans to bring it to Europe. Your only hope is that Toyota will bring the 86 to your shores and have a more appealing front end.

Toyota or Subaru need engine change mandatory. In Europe that engine cannot be homologated and several Subaru's car models are today not imported about emission rules. You need to think that Suzuky has had many issues for some models. The only hope are engines like the new one on Yaris GR or a mix-Hybrid like Forester or Subaru XV. Maybe Toyota could, thus it sales 100% Hybrid in our market.
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:49 AM   #5
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I guess if you want to take away something positive from the Gen2 BRZ is that there are no plans to bring it to Europe. Your only hope is that Toyota will bring the 86 to your shores and have a more appealing front end.
With some European countries taking aim at ICE as early as 2025 (yes looking at you Norway) can you really blame them?

Just saying...
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:13 AM   #6
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With some European countries taking aim at ICE as early as 2025 (yes looking at you Norway) can you really blame them?

Just saying...
Better get em while you can because CA and other states that adhere to the ZEV standard will start banning sales in 2035.
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:23 AM   #7
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Better get em while you can because CA and other states that adhere to the ZEV standard will start banning sales in 2035.
Or sooner.
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Old 11-20-2020, 10:45 AM   #8
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Better get em while you can because CA and other states that adhere to the ZEV standard will start banning sales in 2035.
Actually, I've about given in to the inevitability of it all. The infrastructure is almost there, and if I'm honest, even with my 80 to 120 mile per day commute, an EV would serve me fine 80% of the time. We'll keep one long haul ICE in the family though until charge times and infrastructure are a closer match.

I'm seriously considering one of the upcoming GM/VW/Ford EVs. The Cadillac Lyriq and the VW ID4.Space Vizzion look promising, even as a potential medium trip hauler.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:03 AM   #9
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Actually, I've about given in to the inevitability of it all.
Yes, it's coming and we might as well embrace it rather than fight it. I do like the Tesla although I hope that competition and advances in technology will bring the pricing down to where an ICE vehicle is today. That would cause less pain on the pocketbook and make the switch to an EV easier.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #10
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Actually, I've about given in to the inevitability of it all. The infrastructure is almost there, and if I'm honest, even with my 80 to 120 mile per day commute, an EV would serve me fine 80% of the time. We'll keep one long haul ICE in the family though until charge times and infrastructure are a closer match.

I'm seriously considering one of the upcoming GM/VW/Ford EVs. The Cadillac Lyriq and the VW ID4.Space Vizzion look promising, even as a potential medium trip hauler.
I think this is the best strategy if you're to semi early adopt as it keeps you somewhat safe. Although, ease of charging is not yet ready for mass adoption, especially when you consider time to charge for some vehicles.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:12 AM   #11
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Or sooner.
Too much uncertainty, everyone reporting different year mandates.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:21 AM   #12
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I think this is the best strategy if you're to semi early adopt as it keeps you somewhat safe. Although, ease of charging is not yet ready for mass adoption, especially when you consider time to charge for some vehicles.
Agreed on the charging, that's basically the fly in the ointment for me. As I've said before, I don't care what powers my car, as long as it is not a deciding factor in the way I plan trips.

The more I hear Chris Harris the more I like him. In this video, he hits the nail on the head starting at around 5:00 minutes. Paraphrased:

"The simplicity of ICE is that the car bends to meet your requirements. If you have a debit card, you can go anywhere. With an electric car, you never know what you are going to get in terms of charging."

Good talk about hydrogen and other fuels as well.



Some more interesting stuff in his Honda E reviews I posted here.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:29 AM   #13
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Too much uncertainty, everyone reporting different year mandates.
Yes all the different dates from countries, regions and even different departments within them seem to conflict.

But...

Every quarter for the last 4 years I have to sit on a 2 hour call while a VP goes through 100 slides on this subject. It is pretty much a 2 hour "Let's get rid of ICE" pep talk but the developments that have been made and are coming very soon are real. Many have not been released yet and some are just starting full field trials but I assure you no matter what the different deadlines are the ICE shit will hit the fan starting 2025.

All the "well what about this and that" arguments the internet commentators will provide have been thought of and are being acted on. The people working on this are not dumb, deluded nor part of some bizarre conspiracy theory to lie to the public. The elimination of the ICE engine has started and will roll out faster every single year.
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Old 11-20-2020, 11:33 AM   #14
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I do like the Tesla.
That's where we differ, as much as I want to, there are too many negatives for me with all the Tesla models.
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