Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[Ernest72]

I own an 04 WRX and a 16 BRZ. So far no major issues. Knock on wood. Do the proper maintenance, drive your car hard but not abusive and just enjoy it. Worrying about warranties and such just sucks the fun out of the experience. Before long you are out of warranty anyway and it’s all on you. Life is not without risk. If you want to play you have to be prepared to pay.

[soundman98]

the real question is if engine failure is a safety problem. that is where the nhtsa is going to be looking to force anyone to do anything.

generally, internal engine failure isn't. but if it starts on fire, or adds parts/fluids to the highway, it is.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

It went well for me But I somehow think that with the problem being about sealant, somehow I think the mechanics will be on point this time, even the toyota ones! One could only hope.




It doesn't require lots of engines to explode, it just requires enough complaints to have the nhtsa ask questions.

How many cars died to valve springs in the US, I know that Toyota (not to single them out) said there was none in Australia when they made the press release about the recall, 6 years after release, and 5 years after it was fixed in the assembly line.

I just think there are so many ways that these companies can get away with not reporting issues during teardowns, would some of the engine failures of Australian cars (there was 30k 86 sold here, not a small number) been due to the valve springs? I think so. Certainly they were aware of the issue very early on, and fixed it, so it seems they just waited until they had reached past the popularity of the car so as to not impact sales significantly.

Look just my opinion, but what can reporting it hurt, does not take long.

In the US of A the NHTSA is a SAFETY agency not a consumer advocate. They do not give one little bit of a shit how many people complain about something unless it is a safety issue. Even then they are not exactly fast to react (can you say Takata?). The valve spring recall on the '13s was NOT forced by the NHTSA nor from customer complaints. It was a voluntary recall done by Subaru and Toyota. It was just administered by the NHTSA since the manufactures deemed it a "safety" issue.
Complaining to the NHTSA about the possibility of having some sealant in your oil is like calling 911 because your cat is up a tree. They just won't care.

[Squisher]

My personal hope is that the rtv 'issue' scares enough people away that I can actually buy one of these cars. I've heard these cars are basically a ticking time bomb, steer clear!

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Squisher

My personal hope is that the rtv 'issue' scares enough people away that I can actually buy one of these cars. I've heard these cars are basically a ticking time bomb, steer clear!

What has been your problem buying one?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

What has been your problem buying one?

Canada in general, and BC in particular, have had a hard time getting them. We only receive about 10% a year of what the US does and with all the delays and shortages that has probably shrunk even more as the US market will always take precedence over us. Cars are a volume business and unfortunately we just don't have the population to make us a high priority.
The few that have been brought in have had the majority alloted to Ontario and Quebec. In a "normal" market the BC dealers could make trades or request cars from the areas receiving them but since the demand is so high and supply so low that isn't happening these days.

[Squisher]

My location I believe, and my impatience. I've only been waiting five and a half weeks. Just not used to this market despite having just bought a new Tacoma. Our 'factory order' Tacoma was sold to us in 9days. Our exact spec we had requested. So now I'm spoiled.

In all seriousness I have been paying close attention to everything I can about the rtv issue and my plan is to monitor my oil filters by cutting them open which I have done many times throughout the past and if there turns out to be any serious run on rtv issues I'm more than prepared, capable, and equipped to pull the pan myself and see what's what. For others less equipped or inclined to pull wrenchs I could see it being a real concern if looking at long term ownership past the warranty period.

I see a lot of people here and there complaining that there isn't a proper gasket on this oil pan. I don't see the big deal on that. Last oil pan gasket I did was about a year ago on a 2003 civic it was just rtv too. I've also done them with all different configuration of rubber, cork, fel pro gaskets and find a 'proper' gasket a little more finicky really. But it's really neither here nor there, gasket or rtv. Both ways work.

But I also have no plans to track the 86. Just daily it and enjoy it a bit here and there. I'm not old but old enough for me my days of driving the rat snag right off a vehicle are mostly over. Just enthusiast back/mountain road stuff.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Squisher

My location I believe, and my impatience. I've only been waiting five and a half weeks. Just not used to this market despite having just bought a new Tacoma. Our 'factory order' Tacoma was sold to us in 9days. Our exact spec we had requested. So now I'm spoiled.

In all seriousness I have been paying close attention to everything I can about the rtv issue and my plan is to monitor my oil filters by cutting them open which I have done many times throughout the past and if there turns out to be any serious run on rtv issues I'm more than prepared, capable, and equipped to pull the pan myself and see what's what. For others less equipped or inclined to pull wrenchs I could see it being a real concern if looking at long term ownership past the warranty period.

I see a lot of people here and there complaining that there isn't a proper gasket on this oil pan. I don't see the big deal on that. Last oil pan gasket I did was about a year ago on a 2003 civic it was just rtv too. I've also done them with all different configuration of rubber, cork, fel pro gaskets and find a 'proper' gasket a little more finicky really. But it's really neither here nor there, gasket or rtv. Both ways work.

But I also have no plans to track the 86. Just daily it and enjoy it a bit here and there. I'm not old but old enough for me my days of driving the rat snag right off a vehicle are mostly over. Just enthusiast back/mountain road stuff.

Bet you check the first and find some. After that none.

[Dake]

Originally Posted by soundman98

the real question is if engine failure is a safety problem. that is where the nhtsa is going to be looking to force anyone to do anything.

generally, internal engine failure isn't. but if it starts on fire, or adds parts/fluids to the highway, it is.

Sudden power loss while driving (as would result from an engine eating itself) is definitely a safety issue and recalls have been issued for just that. It doesn't matter whether it's due to mechanical failure, electrical issues or even a software glitch.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Dake

Sudden power loss while driving (as would result from an engine eating itself) is definitely a safety issue and recalls have been issued for just that. It doesn't matter whether it's due to mechanical failure, electrical issues or even a software glitch.

Even if the engine doesn't completely seize, a sudden loss of power with associated "complete engine failure" noises, potentially smoke, etc. can lead the average driver to panic and contribute to a crash.

If you've driven through multiple various vehicle failures before you'd probably take this in stride and maintain control, but that's hardly the norm among the driving public.

I grew up fairly poor, so one of the things included in my parental driver's ed was how to restart a stalled engine mid-left-turn with a sudden loss of power steering in a 2-ton sedan large enough to rival the footprint of a modern full-size truck. In my later youthful exuberance (outright stupidity) I blew a motor, completely gutted a CV joint, launched a car high enough to have it smash an oil pan, and other "useful" experiences that make even fairly uncommon failures something easy to take in stride.

Most people (intelligently or unimaginatively) have had less exciting experiences behind the wheel, and the Risk Management types at a manufacturing business have to worry about those most of all.

"What's the dumbest thing someone could do when this happens? Okay, now if we (safely) assume that's going to be a statistically-significant reaction, what's our plan for mitigating that risk?"

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Squisher

My location I believe, and my impatience. I've only been waiting five and a half weeks. Just not used to this market despite having just bought a new Tacoma. Our 'factory order' Tacoma was sold to us in 9days. Our exact spec we had requested. So now I'm spoiled.
...

what spec did you get? toyota generally doesn't do 'orders', they generally just build to spec, and the dealers trade to what they really want.

except for a 4dr long bed manual.

[Squisher]

Originally Posted by soundman98

what spec did you get? toyota generally doesn't do 'orders', they generally just build to spec, and the dealers trade to what they really want.

except for a 4dr long bed manual.

I had our salesman put in a request for a magnetic grey double cab short box sport premium with standard. And as luck would have it someone else at our dealer had ordered the same thing, it was there when we placed our 'order' sitting in the delivery room, we could look at it but we're asked not to touch or sit in it. Then the customer who had ordered it backed out without even test driving it. It was nine or ten days after making the request and deposit that we took possession. Pretty lucky in the current market for my location.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Complaining to the NHTSA about the possibility of having some sealant in your oil is like calling 911 because your cat is up a tree. They just won't care.

That's not what I said.

I said if you have the issue then make a complaint, its pretty simple. I shouldn't have to spell it out again.

Not sure why all the attempts as dismissing it, that is exactly what the complaint system is for. You can dismiss it, call it useless, but I feel like your just pushing back for no reason, there is nothing negative and only potentially a positive for making these complaints to what is a real and in Toyota mechanics words - an issue that contributes to engine failure.

Why are people so defensive...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Blighty

That's not what I said.

I said if you have the issue then make a complaint, its pretty simple. I shouldn't have to spell it out again.

Not sure why all the attempts as dismissing it, that is exactly what the complaint system is for. You can dismiss it, call it useless, but I feel like your just pushing back for no reason, there is nothing negative and only potentially a positive for making these complaints to what is a real and in Toyota mechanics words - an issue that contributes to engine failure.

Why are people so defensive...

That is EXACTLY what you have said.
Nobody is defensive.
You are suggesting an action that is a total waste of time is all.
They do not care if your engine MAY die they only do if it DOES die and creates a safety issue. If that happens THEN call them. IF you live in the USA!