Manual Downshifting to 1st Gear

[pituala]

If you really want to save gas when decelerating, shut the motor off like all those other crazy "fuel economy" nuts.

[pituala]

By the way, I am 39 years old, I have been racing every type of vehicle imaginable since 1988. I've raced and built real race cars, motorcycles, jetskis, even radio controlled cars. I am also a race engine builder and R&D tech. I've drag raced, road course raced, slalom raced, and I've built motors that have made anywhere from 260whp to 1500whp. I've had NA, supercharged, turbocharged, 4 stroke, and 2 stroke cars. I've tuned suspensions, brakes, and clutches. I have a $4000 clutch/flywheel system in my Supra that was custom adapted from Nascar into a 2nd generation Celica Supra.....so I'm not just talking out of my ass here. I even helped these guys develop this aqua jetpack;
http://www.jetlev.com/

But hey....what the hell do I know

[Kearny Mesa Scion]

Originally Posted by Kundiethala

Im def no expert in driving stick but have practiced the basics on my brothers chevy cruze for the past year. When ever coming to a full stop from like 45 mph, I would hold in the clutch while placing the car into 1st gear in preparation for after the stop. The clutch would be engaged the whole time i was braking and until the light turned green. Never found a problem with the cruze so it became a routine at every stoplight or stopsign.

Just picked up a MT FR-S yest and in the same situation (slowing down for red light from 45) when I have the clutch all the way down, I tried to put it into 1st gear, I hear a grinding sound. Did I just learn it the wrong way on a beater car or is something wrong with my car. After I heard the grinding, I switched to only moving the gear into neutral to slow down. Sorry if this is a really dumb question. This is my first real car and dont wanna mess it up.

if your just learning only use 1st when the car is completely stopped. even if the car is rolling at 10-20mph shift into 2nd. when the car doesn't want to go into 1st its telling you something, it doesn't like that gear based on the speed and rpms.

when you get proficient and there isn't a timeline of days, weeks, months or years, you can learn how to rev-match that will allow you to go into 1st at 30mph which i still wouldn't do but i find myself doing once in awhile cause i like hearing the blips in my car. meaning learn how to drive the regular way without all pompousness of rev-matching and heel toeing because it is a synchronized transmission after all.

i learned how to drive a (dad) manual transmission car at 16yrs old on Union Turnpike in Queens, NY and i didn't learn how to revmatch until i was in my mid 20's. you can't go to high school sports to the pros in a day.

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by Chad

Not sure how leaving it in gear would save more gas than coasting and using brakes... .

Many people have posted the reasoning behind it in this and other threads.

[ill86]

Originally Posted by Snozzberries

The car won't let you drop into first gear until you are below 10 mph or matched for revs (if you are going 20 you would need to rev up to around 5 grand) is what I have been seeing. Ideally you will be downshifting through all your gears as to not wear on your brakes as much. If you do this right you will barely need to break and will have as smooth as a deceleration as if you were braking, figure out heal toeing as well. This is just the habit I was taught.

Ideally you would use your brakes to slow down. Brake pads are easier to change than clutches.

Novice drivers should not worry about downshifting into 1st when coming to a stop. 2nd is low enough.

Practicing h/t is a good idea however.

:happy0180:

[GNS]

Isnt it a bit unnecessary to downshift through each gear? Maybe im understanding this wrong, but if im in 6th gear, coming off the exit ramp of a freeway towards a stop light and i know im going to have to stop up ahead eventually, youre saying to downshift to 5th, 4th, and so on until im in 2nd and coming to a complete stop?

It's to keep you in the powerband if you require it. 6th gear at 20mph, for example, is absolutely gutless.


Okay, look. To everyone on the FR-S forum. It's very simple. Stay in a powerband gear when coming to a stop. Adjust it as necessary, skip a gear if you feel like you can get away with it (ex. 4th gear -> 2nd gear). Just make sure that the gear you're in while decelerating will give you sufficient power to move quickly if you encounter a road hazard and you need power to get out of the way.

In the end, it's not really about saving gas, brakes or clutches. It's about not being caught out of gear or in the wrong gear at all times. If this isn't something which makes sense, then either practice some more or get an AT.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by civicdrivr

Many people have posted the reasoning behind it in this and other threads.

DaJoian cleared that up for me earlier thanks. Just never heard of it anywhere. Pretty cool concept.

[noAE86]

minimize holding the clutch pedal down when slowing or at lights, this will prevent less wear on the clutch bearing and clutch fingers, worn bearing will show as whine and/or rough clutch ingagement,

this is a non issue in some more expensive clutch setups but im 99% sure the 86 uses the cheaper full face bear and open finger clutch arrangement,

edit: wait i think there was another reason too, early/min evo 4g63 engines use to eat thrust bearings and engine blocks from the pressure of prolonged clutch depression, im not saying this will occur but i alway make it a point to teach my friends to stay off the clutch when they can,

[MY13FRS]

Originally Posted by GNS

It's to keep you in the powerband if you require it. 6th gear at 20mph, for example, is absolutely gutless.


Okay, look. To everyone on the FR-S forum. It's very simple. Stay in a powerband gear when coming to a stop. Adjust it as necessary, skip a gear if you feel like you can get away with it (ex. 4th gear -> 2nd gear). Just make sure that the gear you're in while decelerating will give you sufficient power to move quickly if you encounter a road hazard and you need power to get out of the way.

In the end, it's not really about saving gas, brakes or clutches. It's about not being caught out of gear or in the wrong gear at all times. If this isn't something which makes sense, then either practice some more or get an AT.

best answer ^^.

Seems like a lot of people here never had proper training on driving a manual tranny car properly. This should be the first thing whoever that taught you to drive, to explain first thing - "stay in the proper gear that allow you to accelerator out of hazard".

Rule of thumb, stay in the gear that won't lug OR put too much load on your engine unnecessarily. For example, concentrate on being at around 2500-3000rpm.

In conclusion, don't get fixated on being in 1st gear when you are slowing down. Be in 2nd and put in neutral when you stop completely.

[JiB]

When ever im am coming to a stop, i break, clutch in, shift down to 2nd, almost come to a complete stop, shift to first. Nothing fancy, but quite practical.

I have been practicing heel toe in the 86 at carparks at night, and even with the steering wheel up as high as it goes, and out as far as it goes, my legs dont have enough room to twist to do the move...

[ZackZ]

I find if im approaching a stop sign doing about 5 mph or less, clutch in, if i shift into first, the transmission fights me and makes a clanking sound. I dont know why that with the clutch in and going that slow it gives me a hard time to shift into first. Im not talking about rev matching into first, the clutch is in and i cant shift into first. I had an 03 mini cooper s and never experienced this. It is a lease so should i bring it in to have it looked at.

[root]

Originally Posted by pituala

You're right, in racing. Not in everyday street driving. If that were the case, automatic cars would prematurely downshift as you lifted your foot from the accelerator to help slow the car down and help "Save brakes", yet this is NOT done by ANY manufacturer of any vehicle in the world.

But do not tell others this is the norm and regular practice for daily driving, because it is NOT.

Actually I think our automatic Yaris does this. I've been wondering if theres inclinometers and some magic going on as sometimes ill notice on a decline and I just tap the brakes it'll downshift. Need to tap the brakes though, if I just coast it'll go along at current gear.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Kundiethala

Im def no expert in driving stick but have practiced the basics on my brothers chevy cruze for the past year. When ever coming to a full stop from like 45 mph, I would hold in the clutch while placing the car into 1st gear in preparation for after the stop. The clutch would be engaged the whole time i was braking and until the light turned green. Never found a problem with the cruze so it became a routine at every stoplight or stopsign.

Just picked up a MT FR-S yest and in the same situation (slowing down for red light from 45) when I have the clutch all the way down, I tried to put it into 1st gear, I hear a grinding sound. Did I just learn it the wrong way on a beater car or is something wrong with my car. After I heard the grinding, I switched to only moving the gear into neutral to slow down. Sorry if this is a really dumb question. This is my first real car and dont wanna mess it up.

You should take the gearbox out of gear. Your difficulty is with holding the box in gear while coasting. These are constant mesh gearboxes. ALL the gears spin at whatever speed the engaged gears are turning.

Best way to shift into first is to coast up to nearly stopped in neutral then select first just before you actual stop.

Anyone who still thinks coasting in neutral is the least bu dangerous us just completely out of date. In fact, the latest Porsche PDK freewheels on overrun I.e. is acting as if it is in neutral.

A modern synchromesh gearbox can be put into gear in a split second at any speed.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ae86stunt

Turbowned makes a very valid Point. It is unsafe to be in neutral/coasting at any speed above 5mph. For those very few times when u have to accelerate to avoid trouble.

Also, as and automotive technician/Auto Cross Racer.
If you drive a MT Properly. You do NOT cause any premature wear.

TO the OP, Please watch The Drift bible, by Keiichi Tsuchiya.

This is just wrong and so out of date as to be embarrassing.

Four wheel disc brakes and synchromesh make coasting perfectly safe.

The only problems are it uses slightly more fuel and, incredibly, it is still illegal in some jurisdictions.