Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[krayzie]

Wasn't the benchmark target for 86/BRZ also the Cayman?

This is like the 3rd attempt with the first being the MRS going after the Boxster?

And this being a 2-seater imo is primarily down to the fact that the Z4 is a 2-seater. Some of this stuff sounds like a PR spin.

I guess the million dollar question is who would Toyota collaborate with to bring back the MR2, maybe with Lotus again or dare I say Porsche.

[Trust86]

“It was difficult to achieve a good balance using a very big inline 6 engine. But for that goal, BMW, had even done a late-development redesign once at great expense.
They just felt our goals were worthy enough, to lower center of gravity further by dropping the engine to a plane that was previously deemed too difficult.
BMW just came though like this for many things, to get this car done right. They felt it, and we were adamant about it.”

Does this mean dry sump?!?!

[nikitopo]

After reading the interview in the mentioned link I feel that the 4-cylinder was an afterthought option, because of the late tariff price increase and other expected changes in other countries. BMW has a very big factory in South Carolina, but these cars will be built in Austria and the retail price will be higher than expected.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Smaller engines always outsell the bigger engine option and there's no way the 4 banger is less than $45k

Do you mean less powerful engines? Or more appropriately, the cheaper version usually outsells the more expensive version—usually being the better way to say it than always.

When the Mustang was offered in the V6, I4 2.3T and V8, the V6 was the cheapest, yet it was a higher displacement motor than the turbo, and yet both smaller motors didn’t sell as well as the V8, at least at the time of this article.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/news/2015...220054224.html

The Ferrari Testarossa outsold its smaller and cheaper sibling too. Just saying. It isn’t an absolute.

[Irace86.2.0]

With the popularity of the BMW 2 series and M2, if the 4 cylinder is significantly lighter then it could be a popular option.

[Yoshoobaroo]

There's no reason to believe that 4cyl will be that much lighter. The difference between the B58 cars and B48 ones is 88 lbs. If the 6cyl weighs 3100 lbs, the 4cyl will still weigh just over 3000. Even then BMW hasn't made a car that light since the 1st gen Z4. BMW doesn't do light cars.

The Supra will weigh 3150-3300lbs depending on ehgine/transmission configuration, that's my prediction. There's no way it gets close to 2775lbs.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

There's no reason to believe that 4cyl will be that much lighter. The difference between the B58 cars and B48 ones is 88 lbs. If the 6cyl weighs 3100 lbs, the 4cyl will still weigh just over 3000. Even then BMW hasn't made a car that light since the 1st gen Z4. BMW doesn't do light cars.

The Supra will weigh 3150-3300lbs depending on ehgine/transmission configuration, that's my prediction. There's no way it gets close to 2775lbs.

The difference in weight between the 340i and 328i is 200 lbs. Not anemic, not huge, but it’s still a chunk of weight some may prefer not to have.

The MKIV NA Supra didn’t have an LSD, turbos system, had smaller brakes, smaller transmission, smaller exhaust, etc. We don’t know for certain what a 4cylinder option wouldn’t have.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The difference in weight between the 340i and 328i is 200 lbs. Not anemic, not huge, but it’s still a chunk of weight some may prefer not to have.



The MKIV NA Supra didn’t have an LSD, turbos system, had smaller brakes, smaller transmission, smaller exhaust, etc. We don’t know for certain what a 4cylinder option wouldn’t have.

Actually it's 163lbs if you're feeling pedantic.



On the 2 series, which is closer to the dimensions of the Z4/Supra, it's 88lbs.

The increase in difference on the 3 just means the 340 has more stuff standard over the 330 than the 240 has over the 230. I bet the engines are within 75 lbs of eachother.

I'm definitely not arguing the difference is negligible! But the Supra will sit about 300lbs north of the 86 I think.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

After reading the interview in the mentioned link I feel that the 4-cylinder was an afterthought option, because of the late tariff price increase and other expected changes in other countries. BMW has a very big factory in South Carolina, but these cars will be built in Austria and the retail price will be higher than expected.

BMW has sold their two seater Z car with a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder options for nearly twenty years, why would that change when Toyota pays them to slap a different badge on it?

And now that they have pesky problems like bearing failure and leaky oil filters sorted out the b48/b58 are solid for turbo motors.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Do you mean less powerful engines? Or more appropriately, the cheaper version usually outsells the more expensive version—usually being the better way to say it than always.

When the Mustang was offered in the V6, I4 2.3T and V8, the V6 was the cheapest, yet it was a higher displacement motor than the turbo, and yet both smaller motors didn’t sell as well as the V8, at least at the time of this article.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/news/2015...220054224.html

The Ferrari Testarossa outsold its smaller and cheaper sibling too. Just saying. It isn’t an absolute.

Well I'll be damned, not just early sales rush either.

https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2018/04...-sports-coupe/

[Ultramaroon]

Working with other OEMs to tweak their own platforms?


Tada and his team have the coolest jobs ever.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Actually it's 163lbs if you're feeling pedantic.



On the 2 series, which is closer to the dimensions of the Z4/Supra, it's 88lbs.

The increase in difference on the 3 just means the 340 has more stuff standard over the 330 than the 240 has over the 230. I bet the engines are within 75 lbs of eachother.

I'm definitely not arguing the difference is negligible! But the Supra will sit about 300lbs north of the 86 I think.

On Carfolio I got 3252 vs 3499 for the 230 vs 340, respectively. I’m sure it depends on where you look on the internet.

It’ll definitely be heavier than the 86, but the difference might sway a few buyers. Similarly, I’m sure the M2 swayed a few buyers from the M3/4, regardless of price or power, just because of the size. It seemed to hold its own even without the power on some tracks.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

On Carfolio I got 3252 vs 3499 for the 230 vs 340, respectively. I’m sure it depends on where you look on the internet.



It’ll definitely be heavier than the 86, but the difference might sway a few buyers. Similarly, I’m sure the M2 swayed a few buyers from the M3/4, regardless of price or power, just because of the size. It seemed to hold its own even without the power on some tracks.

Got my numbers from BMW

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Got my numbers from BMW

I’m sure those are the most reliable

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

BMW has sold their two seater Z car with a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder options for nearly twenty years, why would that change when Toyota pays them to slap a different badge on it?

And now that they have pesky problems like bearing failure and leaky oil filters sorted out the b48/b58 are solid for turbo motors.

It looks that Toyota wanted initially to focus on a single engine 6-cylinder option and to not hurt the sales of their other models. BMW didn't have all these years something similar to the 86/BRZ, since they were selling basically sedans, SUV's and hatchbacks. So, it was easier for them to offer the Z4 with a two engine option. At least the way I read the club4ag article, it seemed to me that offering also the 4-cylinder option was a later decision. Either they think that the 6-cylinder would be too expensive in specific countries and will offer only the 4-cylinder option or they will offer both options in all countries and gradually phase out the 86/BRZ as it was noted at the beginning of this topic.