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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


View Poll Results: How would you rate the design of the 2nd gen? 1 lowest & 5 highest
1 19 7.20%
2 25 9.47%
3 62 23.48%
4 104 39.39%
5 54 20.45%
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:03 AM   #1877
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Plain white is used in racing, because teams badge the cars with sponsor promotions. So, paint is not that visible and it doesn't really matter. Pearl white or other metallic color is better for normal usage cars.
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Old 05-09-2021, 08:38 AM   #1878
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The difference between 2.0 & 2.4 tax is negligible, an extra 6000 yen or roughly 60 bucks. Not sure if that makes much of a difference..

I didn’t know the gap was so small. I always figured it was more considering how much it was discussed.

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Initial BRZ release was in the U.S. and not in Japan. This generation is not designed that much for Japan. Subaru was marketing for decades their 2 L motors (NA and turbo) in domestic market, while in U.S. they were promoting their 2.5 L motors. Main reason first generation is 2.0 L, is because Toyota was involved more in the engine choice and they have a more global presence. If they wanted to focus more in domestic market with the new model, then they would go with a 2.2 L motor at most or with a smaller turbo engine.

The BRZ and 86 have had numerous press events in Japan while the US got 1 event. At the US event, journalists got to look at the car and some were able to ride along with Subaru’s driver. On paper, the twins still present poorly against the L4/V6 pony cars. I still believe that these cars were very much designed for the Japanese market first and foremost.


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Old 05-09-2021, 10:06 AM   #1879
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The BRZ and 86 have had numerous press events in Japan while the US got 1 event. At the US event, journalists got to look at the car and some were able to ride along with Subaru’s driver. On paper, the twins still present poorly against the L4/V6 pony cars. I still believe that these cars were very much designed for the Japanese market first and foremost.
I'll tell it to you again. Subaru's priority is basically the U.S. market. You might got 1 event, but many months before the official release in Japan. In fact in Japan there were thoughts initially to not sell the BRZ at all in a same manner they will do in Europe, but they changed minds the last time. They are so dependent from the U.S. sales department, that if they tell them to dance they'll do it. It has been like this for some time and their biggest displacement motors were always targeted for that market. You can see attached the latest financial results. In '19 they sold 105k passenger cars in Japan and 700k cars in U.S. Can you do the math? It was x6.6 more cars in the U.S. Even if you include the minicar market, which does not exist in U.S., it didn't go more than 131k cars in Japan. In '20 they sold 84k in Japan and 612k cars in U.S. Meaning x7.2 more cars in the U.S.! Which market is more important for them?

The reason twins still present poorly against the L4/V6 pony cars is because they are focusing on handling performance and not that much on raw engine performance. It might seem to you a dump move for the U.S. market, but at least to them it was a sales success according to their targets. It seems to be a smart move, because they don't have much competition in this area and on specific price levels. So, they are playing alone.
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Old 05-09-2021, 10:43 AM   #1880
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Originally Posted by nikitopo View Post
I'll tell it to you again. Subaru's priority is basically the U.S. market. You might got 1 event, but many months before the official release in Japan. In fact in Japan there were thoughts initially to not sell the BRZ at all in a same manner they will do in Europe, but they changed minds the last time. They are so dependent from the U.S. sales department, that if they tell them to dance they'll do it. It has been like this for some time and their biggest displacement motors were always targeted for that market. You can see attached the latest financial results. In '19 they sold 105k passenger cars in Japan and 700k cars in U.S. Can you do the math? It was x6.6 more cars in the U.S. Even if you include the minicar market, which does not exist in U.S., it didn't go more than 131k cars in Japan. In '20 they sold 84k in Japan and 612k cars in U.S. Meaning x7.2 more cars in the U.S.! Which market is more important for them?

The reason twins still present poorly against the L4/V6 pony cars is because they are focusing on handling performance and not that much on raw engine performance. It might seem to you a dump move for the U.S. market, but at least to them it was a sales success according to their targets. It seems to be a smart move, because they don't have much competition in this area and on specific price levels. So, they are playing alone.
Subaru is so North American oriented that the vast bulk of their cars are now built in the US. All of the biggest sellers (Outback, Ascent, Impreza, and Legacy) are built at the Subaru plant in Lafayette, Indiana. That doesn't leave much production in Japan.
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Old 05-09-2021, 11:18 AM   #1881
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Originally Posted by nikitopo View Post
I'll tell it to you again. Subaru's priority is basically the U.S. market. You might got 1 event, but many months before the official release in Japan. In fact in Japan there were thoughts initially to not sell the BRZ at all in a same manner they will do in Europe, but they changed minds the last time. They are so dependent from the U.S. sales department, that if they tell them to dance they'll do it. It has been like this for some time and their biggest displacement motors were always targeted for that market. You can see attached the latest financial results. In '19 they sold 105k passenger cars in Japan and 700k cars in U.S. Can you do the math? It was x6.6 more cars in the U.S. Even if you include the minicar market, which does not exist in U.S., it didn't go more than 131k cars in Japan. In '20 they sold 84k in Japan and 612k cars in U.S. Meaning x7.2 more cars in the U.S.! Which market is more important for them?

The reason twins still present poorly against the L4/V6 pony cars is because they are focusing on handling performance and not that much on raw engine performance. It might seem to you a dump move for the U.S. market, but at least to them it was a sales success according to their targets. It seems to be a smart move, because they don't have much competition in this area and on specific price levels. So, they are playing alone.

And the BRZ was like 5k of those 700k in the US. The BRZ is dross here in the US market for Subaru.

Note that I specifically said the twins. Since the cars are not differentiated in basic spec, we have to look at both cars when considering design targets. Small displacement, small footprint, light weight... that is very typical for Japan market vehicles. If these cars were built for the NA market first and foremost, it is likely that a North American design studio would have led the vehicle development like Toyota has done in the past with Camry, Avalon, Tacoma, FJ, Sienna, etc. All those vehicles have Japan market equivalents that are lower displacement, small footprint, and lower weight than what we get in the US.


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Old 05-09-2021, 06:43 PM   #1882
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they sold every 86 they built, without heavy incentives or price reductions. that's what a sales success is.
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Old 05-09-2021, 09:15 PM   #1883
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Goals don't mean $hit when they are set so low
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Old 05-10-2021, 12:36 AM   #1884
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Goals don't mean $hit when they are set so low

The twins sell roughly as many cars a year as Porsche sells 911s, or twice as many as Boxster/Cayman combined. Just because the market is niche doesn’t make the goals low.
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Old 05-10-2021, 11:43 AM   #1885
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The twins sell roughly as many cars a year as Porsche sells 911s, or twice as many as Boxster/Cayman combined. Just because the market is niche doesn’t make the goals low.
funny how the twins are barely selling the same number of 911s that is significantly more expensive. In terms of market share for their respective target audience, the 911 is prob killing it... the twins compete in a different market, albeit much larger one, and it can barely gain any market share. taht's just sad

And it sounds like u fanboys like to default to "niche market" as an excuse for the twin's abyssal numbers! PS: I create forecast models for a living, and everything u guys stated are just lame excuses
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Old 05-10-2021, 12:00 PM   #1886
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funny how the twins are barely selling the same number of 911s that is significantly more expensive. In terms of market share for their respective target audience, the 911 is prob killing it... the twins compete in a different market, albeit much larger one, and it can barely gain any market share. taht's just sad

And it sounds like u fanboys like to default to "niche market" as an excuse for the twin's abyssal numbers! PS: I create forecast models for a living, and everything u guys stated are just lame excuses
Your comment doesn't completely track. It's a chicken and egg thing. Toyota/Subaru sold every one they built, and built every one they thought they could sell in what is a relatively small market. How are the numbers "abysmal". Not even sure they have the capacity to build more.
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Old 05-10-2021, 12:13 PM   #1887
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they played it safe and set a goal that is easily attainable... but if u look at market share goals between the 911 and the twins, u'll see a much larger gap... it doesn't matter what the actual numbers are, it's the market share that counts... and TBH, that's something a lot of management teams don't think abt.. they look at the absolute units sold and think they're bada$$.. then i come in and burst their bubbles
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Old 05-10-2021, 12:29 PM   #1888
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funny how the twins are barely selling the same number of 911s that is significantly more expensive. In terms of market share for their respective target audience, the 911 is prob killing it... the twins compete in a different market, albeit much larger one, and it can barely gain any market share. taht's just sad

And it sounds like u fanboys like to default to "niche market" as an excuse for the twin's abyssal numbers! PS: I create forecast models for a living, and everything u guys stated are just lame excuses
Why are you still here? I know you had a bad time but that doesn't mean you have to turn into a complete troll.
I doubt your forecast models are very reliable if you don't have a basic grasp of the concept of them not going after market share.
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Old 05-10-2021, 12:42 PM   #1889
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Why are you still here? I know you had a bad time but that doesn't mean you have to turn into a complete troll.
I doubt your forecast models are very reliable if you don't have a basic grasp of the concept of them not going after market share.
sure, let's just spend money creating a car and break even at best says no CEO ever
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Old 05-10-2021, 12:44 PM   #1890
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sure, let's just spend money creating a car and break even at best says no CEO ever
It happens all the time. These are not their bread and butter and you know it.
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