Capacitors on factory dash speakers

[soundman98]

i do have that specific model on my parts shelf, but i've never tried it. after the point source dropped into the dash with almost zero effort, i lost any motivation to try any speaker like that required more effort to build a bracket.

i have tried the air motion tweeter(don't recall if i used the 4 or 8ohm, want to say it was the 8 ohm version though), and wasn't very impressed-- it existed and functioned, but the high end was best described as 'lifeless'. it got me reaching for the eq to fix the feeling of loss, and any time i reach for the eq, i start considering if there's a better option.

so after that, i really didn't have a huge desire to try any planar designs-- the response curve above 10k is has a similar rolloff.


i did briefly consider the planar tweeter for my truck build (pictures are in the 1x5 review i posted on parts express, because no one else is reviewing them), but planar designs are heavily influenced by the rear air chamber which was non-existent mounting in the a-pillar like i did, and they just plain looked ugly to me--the very first goal of the truck build was to have an exposed speaker there that didn't look like an exposed speaker.


it's extremely petty, and has no real basis on specifications, but most of any speakers i use/like for any project has a lot to do with it's looks and uniqueness. that's how so many speakers ended up on my parts shelf, they look different, or do the same thing a different way, and i'm curious.

[solidONE]

@soundman98 I would have went with the 3.5" Tectonic BMR for the dash, but all the 4ohm dealies are out of stock till summer. Seems you gravitate toward 8ohm speakers geared more toward custom cabinets for your cars. There is a sound quality reward for running higher resistance speakers?

As far as the mounting for that 1 x3" planar tweeter It looks like you can easily fabricate a gasket surround or a small riser to attach it behind a grill of some sort. This way it has all the air behind it to do what it need to do.. As long as the grill looks good. Or if you're fancy like the guy in the reviews you can buy 30 of them and spell out your name with it. I can make a LA Lakers logo using this and purple mounting plate. Just 1/4" thick it can be pretty dang flexible with mounting options.

But, that's all a waste if they dont sound good in the first place. I know what to expect with the traditional speaker. You look at these and think "wtf?". I"m curious, but I also dont wanna waste too much money experimenting either. lol

[soundman98]

no real reason i prefer 8 ohm to 4 ohm. i just like the concept of higher resistance speakers better. i think they offer better response than lower resistance speakers, but the numbers really don't indicate that.

for me it's somewhat of an antithesis of the way car audio has gone. i've met plenty of people that push and shove for 1.5 ohm subwoofers, and get caught up in big wattage numbers games where all that matters is that they're pushing fatter numbers into smaller and smaller resistance speakers. i don't need to break records, or prove anything to anyone, so i just 'do', and ignore some of the car audio malarkey.

[LimitedSlip]

@soundman98 Do you think not having a sealed baffle (the dash surrounding the point source has a few holes in it) makes a noticeable difference? I believe the factory 4" has a forward facing foam surround that contacts the underside of the grill to become sort of "semi-sealed". Or is the lower cutoff frequency driving the speaker high enough that the open baffle just doesn't have much cancellation effect (or the car is just too noisy to tell).
Thanks!

[soundman98]

i'm seriously re-reviewing the specs and info on the planar tweeter and remembering that some of the reason that i'm not using it is the high crossover point. the MINIMUM crossover point is 4khz. it means that in all reality, i'd need to cross them at 5-6khz. i'd likely lean closer to 6k to avoid any immediate issues and then slowly drop them down to 5k if i could.

in the car, i use a set of 7" esoteric's. the truck runs 6.5" hds'. both start to have extremely erratic frequency response above 1khz, especially off-axis, where both have a significant drop near 3-4khz, that would fall underneath the required crossover point...

meaning that the planar tweeters would absolutely require a midrange to pick up the slack from about 800hz to the selected crossover point. with a subwoofer, it's now looking at building a 4-way setup. no deck supports 4-way, so it's all in passive crossover or dsp territory--dsp would be preferable to make it easier to balance every set of drivers, but that means an additional set of amp channels...

and this doesn't even account yet for the fact that the 1x3" dimensions mean that it wouldn't fit in the tweeter spot in these cars and would need to take over the midrange location. so now a new location would need to be found for the additional midrange...

so while they're possible, i start to run out of physical space for all the drivers required, and when i can just do 2 drivers instead of 3, planar drivers just seem to create more needs and requirements than they fix..

TLDR, i wouldn't recommend bothering with them. they might be nice in a 3-way bookshelf, but not in a space-limited vehicle install.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by LimitedSlip

@soundman98 Do you think not having a sealed baffle (the dash surrounding the point source has a few holes in it) makes a noticeable difference? I believe the factory 4" has a forward facing foam surround that contacts the underside of the grill to become sort of "semi-sealed". Or is the lower cutoff frequency driving the speaker high enough that the open baffle just doesn't have much cancellation effect (or the car is just too noisy to tell).
Thanks!

in post #43, the first link is the picture right after i installed my point-sources. they just sit in the opening, with a small section of aluminum flat bar with the oem bolts to hold it down on the edges to keep from vibrating. i want to say they were deep enough that the magnet assembly was touching on the bottom as well, but don't clearly recall any more...

i don't notice any ill effects from this method. it's really all i can say. it's still possible of course, but i don't notice any of it...

[solidONE]

@soundman98 there is a way to mount that tweeter next to your 3.5" dash speaker. The empty area to the right of the speaker where the current tweeter resides. The grill will need to be modified. 1/8" drill bit to create more holes for the new shape. trim down the back to fit your stick-of-bubblegum sized tweeter and gasket. BOOM! look like stock. Then you might need to trim down the dash at the speaker area for more air space behind. That part may get tricky since you have the holes to clip the grill in position in close quarters.

You can kinda play with angle o direct it toward different part the windshield, but range of adjustment is going to be limited. So.. it still might sound like shit or it might be perfect. But its exactly how factory tweeter is mounted and directed. Now just gum shaped instead of a round puck .

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by solidONE

@soundman98 there is a way to mount that tweeter next to your 3.5" dash speaker. The empty area to the right of the speaker where the current tweeter resides. The grill will need to be modified. 1/8" drill bit to create more holes for the new shape. trim down the back to fit your stick-of-bubblegum sized tweeter and gasket. BOOM! look like stock. Then you might need to trim down the dash at the speaker area for more air space behind. That part may get tricky since you have the holes to clip the grill in position in close quarters.

ok, then it's just not worth it to me

[solidONE]

okay.. I dont what to do all that either. lmao

[solidONE]

I got picktures!

Dash speaker side by side:


Mock up:


Brackets made using HDF flooring, very dense stuff:


Test Fit:


Door Speaker Adaptor:


Primer:


Topcoat:


Door Speakers Side By Side:


Sealed with shellac and test fit:


To match he new power demands. "Big 3" and their neighbor 'lil Fusie: (4AWG tinned OFC cable w/ Raychem DR-25 mil spec sleeve)


Brackets are made using hand tools aside from the jigsaw and drill-press that can be substituted hand-drill and handsaw. hand finished with files, sandpaper, hacksaw mostly. Can be easily replicated with basic-around-the-house tools. Cable crimps not required, but I'm a bit OCD about those things. I'll have more pictures of door deadening and sealing as soon as this rain stops.

[Griever423]

Please do post updates! I'm interested to hear what you think of the dash speakers high range.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Griever423

Please do post updates! I'm interested to hear what you think of the dash speakers high range.

I like 'em. Without a tweeter you might want to invest a bit more for a better driver, such as the Dayton point source 3.5". Though I'm only assuming as I've not tried anything else in the dash besides factory. These are better sounding to my ears.

Originally Posted by solidONE

Edit: @LimitedSlip I just got done "auditioning" the sound with and without the tweeter. Did this by keeping the tweeter in the passenger side channel and bypassing it in the driver side. Here what I found:

1. The side with the tweeter bypass plays a bit louder. No surprise.

2. Sampling some smooth k-pop R&B styling of DEAN and his broad vocal range. The tweeter channel sounded more 'complex'? here was more definition like in a larger room or concert hall ( this is with all of the bass boost turned off or into the min setting and rear channels completely off. ).

The no tweeter side sounded more natural, like he is sitting right in font of me singing than in a concert hall. The tweeter side sounded "larger?" The no tweeter side I feel lacked some high frequency response. With a different dash speaker with better off axis high end response would probably do better than the one I have without a tweeter.

[solidONE]

Got around to testing the BMR speakers on the dash vs my Dayton 3"

The 3" Daytons out performed the 3.5" powered off the headunit and paired with the stock tweeter. Much clearer highs, but not a real apples to apples since the 4ohm BMF speaker were not available I went with an 8 ohm. Although, the 8ohm BMF sounded slightly louder surprisingly even with the higher impedance.


Finally got around to sealing the doors, and I'm now running the wires. I'm pretty sure I'm overdoing it with the hardboards and abs board. I cannot imagine it sounding tremendously better than a door sealed using more flexible panel, but meh? Closed cell foam blanket will go over after i cover the smaller holes with HomeDepot sound deadening (Roof repair sheets). Roughly 1 sqft on the outer skin, .75 sqft on the inner skin(some on the backside not shown in photos particularly around the speaker opening) in addition to the 2 6x6 pieces already on the door. Maybe .5 sq ft on the back of the door card. A lot of cloth tape, felt tape and HomeDepot Freeze king closed cell foam in various sizes all around.

[solidONE]

A little update. After wiring everything up and mulling over if I should add subwoofer or additional speaker, after playing it it was clear. The sound is fantastic and much louder than what my ears can handle. I’m no “car audio guy” but this is a deep and as loud as a subwoofer using 100w rms 6.5” door speaker and the tweeter mounted in place of the factory speakers. This thing BUMPS!





I placed my 8ohm 3.5” in the rear and hooked it up to the 4x100w amp and also tried it out powered by the factory amp in an Amazon Prime box as enclosure for shits and giggles. Box and port was the perfect dimensions. As if it were meant to be done. For shits and giggles.