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Old 08-06-2020, 01:10 AM   #1
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Old School High-End Meets New School High-Efficiency

So to start off, I've taken good care of my collection of mobile electronics over the many years since I started this hobby (and for a few years back in the day, this profession) and I decided to begin a new build for this '15 FR-S that will include two "veteran stars" from the old days, along with some new "supporting actors" from today.

In the dash on top, and in the leading role, I present my 18 year-old Pioneer Premier DEH-P940MP in 3-way network mode, and underneath that, in one of the spporting roles, my new Alpine CDE-172BT to add a host of modern features to the setup via the Pioneer's auxilliary inputs.

In the trunk, and co-star of this show, I have my 20 year-old, first generation Orion HCCA 12-inch, dual 2-ohm subwoofer wired in parallel, powered by another one of the new cast members in a supporting role, my new Cerwin Vega Stealth Bomber B51 mono-block amplifier.

To round out the rest of the cast is my new Stealth Bomber B54, 4-channel and B52, 2-channel amplifiers which are powering all Dayton Audio brand 1-inch tweeters, 3.5-inch midrange drivers, and 6.5-inch woofers all in the front factory locations.

I had to fire the factory rear speakers as they kept showing up to the set hung-over from the night before.

This setup is technically a 4-way network system with the high RCA outputs of the Pioneer head unit feeding the first two channels of the B54 at 80 watts RMS per channel at 4 ohms for the tweeters, the low RCA outputs feeding the B51 at 500 watts mono into a 1-ohm load for the sub, and the mid RCA outputs being split and feeding the second set of channels of the B54 for the 3.5-inch midrange drivers at 80 watts RMS per channel at 4 ohms, and the two channels of the B52 at 150 watts per channel into 4 ohms for the 6.5-inch door mid-bass drivers.

The combination of the built-in crossovers and time alignment of the Pioneer head unit, along with the on-board crossovers and sub-sonic filter of the Stealth Bomber amps makes this entire system so simple to adjust once you get all the gain and level settings correct. So far, except for some vibrations in the doors and rear deck, everything is sounding great.

The small size, light weight and features of these Cerwin Vega Stealth Bomber amplifiers along with the 250mV to 10V signal input sensitivity are what sold me on these new amps. I highly recommend them if space is a concern. The Pioneer head unit can put out a clean 6.5-volt signal on the RCA outputs which was very high for it's day, and still higher than most head units today which was an important factor for choosing amplification and it took me weeks to sift through all the specifications of several brands of amplifiers for me to finally choose the ones I did.

I'm still in the process of building everything which is the reason for the messy wiring, and right now the Orion sub is in a cheap Walmart enclosure until my custom enclosure is finished, but I promise to update this thread when I get everything in the trunk a bit more organized. Until then, thanks for taking the time to read this. If anybody has any questions about this build or suggestions, just let me know.
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Old 08-11-2020, 07:34 PM   #2
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You know they make double din stereos now?
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Old 08-11-2020, 07:57 PM   #3
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I like it, props. I admire a setup that's proven to work for you. All the huge touchscreen slabs are a huge turn off to me.

Nice amps too, I'll need to check those out

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Old 08-11-2020, 09:55 PM   #4
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what brought on the 'switch' to an alpine unit for the updated media options?

personally, i've always loved pioneer simply because i've been able to make tweaks to 7/8's of everything without ever needing to look at the manual. every time i try an alpine, it's like pc vs. mac--it does all the same things, just in a completely different and more complicated way.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:57 PM   #5
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You know they make double din stereos now?
but those are not nearly as much fun as a double-stack setup!

my second DIN slot is currently on reservation for one of these
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Old 08-11-2020, 11:21 PM   #6
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You know they make double din stereos now?
Of course they do. But the Premier brand is no longer made, which makes it that much more unlikely that anyone else will have the same setup. Nor can you even find a deck now in a double-din format that has 6.5-volt RCA outputs that this deck has along with internal crossovers and time alignment for less than $500. I don't need navigation and I've already got this head unit, why not use it?

Besides, old school is just cool.
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Old 08-11-2020, 11:40 PM   #7
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what brought on the 'switch' to an alpine unit for the updated media options?

personally, i've always loved pioneer simply because i've been able to make tweaks to 7/8's of everything without ever needing to look at the manual. every time i try an alpine, it's like pc vs. mac--it does all the same things, just in a completely different and more complicated way.
One of the main reasons for the addition of Alpine, is that I've been reading that the newer Pioneer units are not as reliable as they once were, especially at the price point that I was looking at to simply add the modern features of Bluetooth and USB.

Another reason is that with this particular Alpine model, I was able to color match the display and keys to the Premier unit.

This is actually my first Alpine head unit and they have always been on the higher end of the quality and reliability scale, so I decided to try it out. And for about $130, it seems like a good deal to me.

I didn't have any issues learning how to use this new Alpine. The owners' manual does a pretty good job of explaining everything that I need to do with it. It's actually pretty intuitive, a whole lot more than my old lady's new RAV-4 infotainment system. Personally, I hate touchscreens. Give me an infrared remote or steering wheel controls instead.....and REAL buttons.
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Old 08-12-2020, 12:11 AM   #8
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Of course they do. But the Premier brand is no longer made, which makes it that much more unlikely that anyone else will have the same setup. Nor can you even find a deck now in a double-din format that has 6.5-volt RCA outputs that this deck has along with internal crossovers and time alignment for less than $500. I don't need navigation and I've already got this head unit, why not use it?

Besides, old school is just cool.
pioneer does make the 80prs now, which covers all of that except the 6.5v preouts. in fact, i can't think of any deck anymore that advertises higher voltage preouts anymore... i ran a 9v preamp for a few years once when i was convinced a distortion issue was in the signal level(turned out to be an issue with the design of a companies passive crossover units related to my usage). never really got into the marketing of the higher voltage preout stuff. i get the concept of a higher signal level creating a lower noise floor, but the reality is if you're getting a whine at 1v preout's, you're going to get the same whine at 6.5v...


i tried a $300 pioneer touchscreen for a little while. it was such a hit someone made off with it after 3 months! but no one touches single din radios. despite the fact that some of them are less replaceable and sometimes more expensive than the touchscreen models.

with the advent of cheap DSP's, i'm finding myself migrating away from deck-based tuning, and moving more towards the more specific options available in things like the dsp-408. i overkilled my truck install putting one in, and now regret that i didn't put on in on the car install. my favorite part is the individual output parametric eq settings. no deck can come close.
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Old 08-12-2020, 12:56 AM   #9
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pioneer does make the 80prs now, which covers all of that except the 6.5v preouts. in fact, i can't think of any deck anymore that advertises higher voltage preouts anymore... i ran a 9v preamp for a few years once when i was convinced a distortion issue was in the signal level(turned out to be an issue with the design of a companies passive crossover units related to my usage). never really got into the marketing of the higher voltage preout stuff. i get the concept of a higher signal level creating a lower noise floor, but the reality is if you're getting a whine at 1v preout's, you're going to get the same whine at 6.5v...


i tried a $300 pioneer touchscreen for a little while. it was such a hit someone made off with it after 3 months! but no one touches single din radios. despite the fact that some of them are less replaceable and sometimes more expensive than the touchscreen models.

with the advent of cheap DSP's, i'm finding myself migrating away from deck-based tuning, and moving more towards the more specific options available in things like the dsp-408. i overkilled my truck install putting one in, and now regret that i didn't put on in on the car install. my favorite part is the individual output parametric eq settings. no deck can come close.
Yeah, I looked at that 80PRS, but it doesn't have the Premier name on it. If I WERE to ever upgrade this Premier deck to a regular Pioneer unit, there's only one model that I would ever consider stepping up to......the DEX-P99RS. 4-way network built into the unit with even better crossovers, more accurate time alignment, more than twice as many EQ set points, still not quite as high voltage on the RCA outputs and no on-board speaker outputs (I'm not using any of the deck's speaker outputs anyways.) But I'm not currently prepared to spend over $1000 on eBay for a used car stereo sight unseen, which is what they're going for right now.

I also looked at the Mosconi Aerospace DSP 8 to 12, but they're selling for $1500. Right now, my current setup is working perfectly fine for me. No whine, very low noise floor out of the Premier. I did notice a bit more noise at zero bits while using the Alpine as an AUX source, but I'm sure you know that the more components in your system, the more noise you'll have. It's just something that is inherent in any analog system.

One other benefit to have with a high voltage signal - your amplifiers don't have to work as hard.
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Old 08-12-2020, 07:15 AM   #10
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Yeah, I looked at that 80PRS, but it doesn't have the Premier name on it. If I WERE to ever upgrade this Premier deck to a regular Pioneer unit, there's only one model that I would ever consider stepping up to......the DEX-P99RS. 4-way network built into the unit with even better crossovers, more accurate time alignment, more than twice as many EQ set points, still not quite as high voltage on the RCA outputs and no on-board speaker outputs (I'm not using any of the deck's speaker outputs anyways.) But I'm not currently prepared to spend over $1000 on eBay for a used car stereo sight unseen, which is what they're going for right now.

I also looked at the Mosconi Aerospace DSP 8 to 12, but they're selling for $1500. Right now, my current setup is working perfectly fine for me. No whine, very low noise floor out of the Premier. I did notice a bit more noise at zero bits while using the Alpine as an AUX source, but I'm sure you know that the more components in your system, the more noise you'll have. It's just something that is inherent in any analog system.

One other benefit to have with a high voltage signal - your amplifiers don't have to work as hard.

I have one of those from Japan I still haven't installed into anything yet, nice to know they are still worth it, and there is a way to get bluetooth and usb functionality.



Your build is awesome and makes me happy we can still do awesome sound without touch screens.
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:45 AM   #11
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I have one of those from Japan I still haven't installed into anything yet, nice to know they are still worth it, and there is a way to get bluetooth and usb functionality.



Your build is awesome and makes me happy we can still do awesome sound without touch screens.
Ah, the Japan-only Carrozzeria DEH-P01? I believe the Carrozzeria decks were the equivalent to the Premier line, and I think they’re still marketed there. Let me know if you ever want to sell or trade it, or even borrow it out for a while just to give it some “exercise”. I’d love to see that head unit running in my system since it’s already set up for 4-way.

And thanks for the compliment. Yeah, unfortunately none of the higher-end manufacturers seem to have an audiophile head unit available anymore that will focus only on music. Most top-of-the line head units now are double-din touch screen models and are navigation-focused. Over the past 20 years, sound quality has taken a back seat to other features. The manufacturers realize that MOST people are playing compressed media files on their head units and would rather be able to have more, low resolution songs packed into one place than high resolution CD quality sound. But as the price of digital storage decreases and the amount of storage on a single chip increases, we will probably see the eventual return of the audiophile head unit in a mech-less design.
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Old 08-12-2020, 01:18 PM   #12
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Ah, the Japan-only Carrozzeria DEH-P01? I believe the Carrozzeria decks were the equivalent to the Premier line, and I think they’re still marketed there. Let me know if you ever want to sell or trade it, or even borrow it out for a while just to give it some “exercise”. I’d love to see that head unit running in my system since it’s already set up for 4-way.

And thanks for the compliment. Yeah, unfortunately none of the higher-end manufacturers seem to have an audiophile head unit available anymore that will focus only on music. Most top-of-the line head units now are double-din touch screen models and are navigation-focused. Over the past 20 years, sound quality has taken a back seat to other features. The manufacturers realize that MOST people are playing compressed media files on their head units and would rather be able to have more, low resolution songs packed into one place than high resolution CD quality sound. But as the price of digital storage decreases and the amount of storage on a single chip increases, we will probably see the eventual return of the audiophile head unit in a mech-less design.

Yes that's it, I had to go check the box. I bought it used off of a friend who used to compete in SQ competitions. I think he placed 4th or 5th nationally using it, then had some massive major drama in his team and quit and sold tons of his audio gear. I meant to install it in my last car but trying to figure out the Japanese and some other issues overwhelmed me at the time and I never did.



You'd think it has become cheap enough. I can store absurd amounts of high quality music on my iphone. Never mind you can now buy 2 terabyte flash drives.


I don't get expensive touchscreens with nav. We know it won't be better nav than what we get on our phones, so what is the point?
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Old 08-12-2020, 02:38 PM   #13
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Yes that's it, I had to go check the box. I bought it used off of a friend who used to compete in SQ competitions. I think he placed 4th or 5th nationally using it, then had some massive major drama in his team and quit and sold tons of his audio gear. I meant to install it in my last car but trying to figure out the Japanese and some other issues overwhelmed me at the time and I never did.



You'd think it has become cheap enough. I can store absurd amounts of high quality music on my iphone. Never mind you can now buy 2 terabyte flash drives.


I don't get expensive touchscreens with nav. We know it won't be better nav than what we get on our phones, so what is the point?
I predict Pioneer will eventually come out with a new mech-less double-din audiophile model with an internal solid state hard drive that is at least 1TB, in addition to USB and Bluetooth, and includes Wi-Fi so that you can download all the files you want straight to it. Not an android-based deck, but their own exclusive OS like they're known for now. Hopefully it will be 4-way network (or more?) ready with all the SQ features from the P99RS with additional adjustments.

Yeah, as for navigation, my 6 year-old near top-of-the-line Garmin still works perfectly and also has voice control. I find that it is not always a good thing to have all of your eggs in one basket.

I'll be willing to bet that if you look here,

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/S...Manual0428.pdf

you'll see that the head unit sold elsewhere around the world will be pretty close in operation to your Japan-only model. I'm sure you could probably compare pictures and figure everything out. Besides the language set up, the one major difference would be the AM/FM tuner frequencies. Everything else will probably be virtually identical. But if you add another deck as a source like I did, the tuner issue can easily be overcome. (If AM/FM is even a requirement for you.)

If you still can't figure it out, I'd be very willing to test it out and try to interpret Japanese for you.
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:44 AM   #14
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When I read "old school" my head went way further back.


Wonder if I can get one of these to work since it would probably sound better than the 2020 piece of trash they used.


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