ANOTHER oil temp thread

[Compelica]

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990

How much trouble is bleeding the coolant?

IIRC the coolant circulation system eventually bleeds itself via the reservoir but to quickly relieve air there is a bleed valve close to the center of the engine firewall - however I don't remember the procedure off hand.

edit: @RToyo86 beat me to it

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

Guys on the track see higher temps than this, up into the 260-270 range. Typically you're told if it hits 270, it's time to back off and if you're hitting that, time for an oil cooler.

IMO, no. I've tracked mine since a few months after I bought it, probably put 32 track days on it, currently just over 50k on the odo, never ran an oil cooler. Every session oil temp climbs to just over 270F and holds there. Never had it climb from there even in 95F ambient temps. Personally, I don't think an oil cooler is necessary for occasional track usage and stints less than ~20-30 minutes. I do run 30 weight synthetic during track season.

If you're spirited driving / mountain roads and stock, you probably don't need an oil cooler.

Agree. IMO they are overprescribed and usually totally unecessary. *IF* I were to run one on a street car I would go with the OEM-type cooler OP mentions, which will ensure oil gets up to temp quickly.

[RToyo86]

I will be doing some tracking this season and will be curious to see where maxes out. I hit 265f before backing off multiple times.
A friend who ran the same forester OC on the same track has mentioned prior to install he was able to hit 290f on our local track with 0w-20 while not paying attention.
After the cooler his temps maxed out at 260f. 260f is still not ideal but I'll take a steady 260f over running hotter.

That and potential of warming up faster.
I have been watching oil temps near daily for the last week and a half with the cooler from cold start to 170F oil temps. During summer temperatures I don't see much of a difference warming the oil.

Coolant temps are about 30f ahead of oil temps which is in-line with no cooler from my experience.
Winter will be entirely different and I expect to see noticable difference there.

[suppjc]

Thanks everyone!

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990

Borrowed from here:

I am not particularly fond of that data as I don't see an equal PSI/rpm correlation on my own car. Even running 0-20, I am pretty sure the oil pump cavitates. I build oil pressure till about 5800RPM and then it drops. I bought sensors for logging oil pressure and temp, waiting on my RPM reference sensor. I have a tool that plugs into these and will log the data.

FWIW I have been tracking my car on 0-20W with an oil cooler for 5-6 years. I regularly see oil temps in the 240-260F range. Buy good oil if you are hard on your car.

[suppjc]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am not particularly fond of that data as I don't see an equal PSI/rpm correlation on my own car. Even running 0-20, I am pretty sure the oil pump cavitates. I build oil pressure till about 5800RPM and then it drops. I bought sensors for logging oil pressure and temp, waiting on my RPM reference sensor. I have a tool that plugs into these and will log the data.

FWIW I have been tracking my car on 0-20W with an oil cooler for 5-6 years. I regularly see oil temps in the 240-260F range. Buy good oil if you are hard on your car.

Thank you for sharing. I check my oil from time to time and tend to change the oil in a little bit short interval (6000km-ish) because of often short drivings and cold weather in the last winter.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by suppjc

Thank you for sharing. I check my oil from time to time and tend to change the oil in a little bit short interval (6000km-ish) because of often short drivings and cold weather in the last winter.

I run 7500 mile oil change intervals.

Logging I will be using Innovate motorsports MTX gauges linked to an SSI-4 for RPM ref and going to a PL-1 datalogger.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am not particularly fond of that data as I don't see an equal PSI/rpm correlation on my own car. Even running 0-20, I am pretty sure the oil pump cavitates.

Yeah, that's a bigger concern for me than oil temps at 270F, which don't bother me at all with good synthetic 30-weight oil. I'm sure you're familiar with this thread:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134863

I build oil pressure till about 5800RPM and then it drops. I bought sensors for logging oil pressure and temp, waiting on my RPM reference sensor. I have a tool that plugs into these and will log the data.

Looking forward to seeing data! Are you running a KillerB or other aftermarket pickup tube? It would be great to see how effective that is at keeping oil pressure at higher rpm...

FWIW I have been tracking my car on 0-20W with an oil cooler for 5-6 years. I regularly see oil temps in the 240-260F range. Buy good oil if you are hard on your car.

Yup! And anything above that range consider going to 30-weight. I would consider running 40-weight but for concerns about cavitation on the low-pressure side...

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

If you're spirited driving / mountain roads and stock, you probably don't need an oil cooler.

You know, I've always thought this but am not so sure now. A friend of mine got me into mountain driving and I've been logging some runs. On some fairly cool days (65F), I've seen peaks of 240-245 F oil on certain roads in extended driving. This is with a Perrin oil cooler and running E85. 245 F is about the same peak that I've seen at the track in 95 F days for comparison. I think it's due to the elevation (lack of air density) and overall lower speeds vs track (less airflow through the cooler). Mountain passes that use 3rd/4th usually peak around 10 F less (230-235 F) than those that use 2nd/3rd, I think due to the lower speed/airflow.

My recommendation would be that anyone who "spiritedly" drives 2nd/3rd gear mountain passes should watch their oil temps and evaluate.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

FWIW I have been tracking my car on 0-20W with an oil cooler for 5-6 years. I regularly see oil temps in the 240-260F range. Buy good oil if you are hard on your car.

Yeah I think good oil is essential. I used to pay attention to kV at 100 C, but HTHS viscosity (measured at 150 C) is probably the number to focus on for track use, particularly if running without an oil cooler and seeing high oil temps 260-290 F).

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Yeah, that's a bigger concern for me than oil temps at 270F, which don't bother me at all with good synthetic 30-weight oil. I'm sure you're familiar with this thread:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134863


Looking forward to seeing data! Are you running a KillerB or other aftermarket pickup tube? It would be great to see how effective that is at keeping oil pressure at higher rpm...

Yup! And anything above that range consider going to 30-weight. I would consider running 40-weight but for concerns about cavitation on the low-pressure side...

I am not running the KillerB pickup. The one they sent me didn't fit and I never got a replacement or refund. I guess IAG doesn't recommend running it for some reason either.

I still plan on testing before/after oil cooler temps/pressure and with and without oil cooler with 0-20 vs 5-30. I need to buy another gauge and the PL-1 will log it all. I just went a little deep in my parts budget this year so I am trying not to spend too much more money or I am not going to get to drive as much. The one part I am missing is showing up today so I might be able to get it roughly installed today and log the car on Saturday at the track.

[Compelica]

Originally Posted by 7 skulls

The I found this thread:https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2714154

Reading this link has got me reconsidering my oil choices... will pick something with a higher HTHS the next round for additional protection. It's easy to get ACEA C3s but I'm not fond of the oil intervals. Finding A3/B4s are getting harder nowadays, where they have >3.5 HTHS and >10 TBN.

From what I'm seeing from different manuals in different regions our cars would accept down to API SL, which most A3/B4s are in that category (many opinions out there say to just ignore API ratings though)

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am not particularly fond of that data as I don't see an equal PSI/rpm correlation on my own car. Even running 0-20, I am pretty sure the oil pump cavitates. I build oil pressure till about 5800RPM and then it drops. I bought sensors for logging oil pressure and temp, waiting on my RPM reference sensor. I have a tool that plugs into these and will log the data.

FWIW I have been tracking my car on 0-20W with an oil cooler for 5-6 years. I regularly see oil temps in the 240-260F range. Buy good oil if you are hard on your car.

Just out of curiosity, if you're not seeing an equal PSI/rpm correlation on your own car, what kind of pressures are you seeing at certain temperatures? Because this data shows quite a wide range of PSI/rpm, so for you to be out of that data range completely would be very... interesting.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Just out of curiosity, if you're not seeing an equal PSI/rpm correlation on your own car, what kind of pressures are you seeing at certain temperatures? Because this data shows quite a wide range of PSI/rpm, so for you to be out of that data range completely would be very... interesting.

The issue is oil pump cavitation, or possibly a flow restriction in my setup. I have heard of others complain of cavitation as well but I see my oil pressure build up to 5800rpm and then drop. It is usually around 42-44psi at redline. If there is a cavitation issue like I am seeing then PSI/RPM is not going to correlate in the upper RPMs.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

The issue is oil pump cavitation, or possibly a flow restriction in my setup. I have heard of others complain of cavitation as well but I see my oil pressure build up to 5800rpm and then drop. It is usually around 42-44psi at redline. If there is a cavitation issue like I am seeing then PSI/RPM is not going to correlate in the upper RPMs.

Ah yes, you did mention that. I am aware of this, I just misunderstood your correlation to the data. You're right, though the data may show this with the lowest psi dips, it is hard to know where it actually occurs in the RPM range (which is typically in the 6K+ RPM range as you say). Agreed that this is the most important issue with oil on this platform, not so much the temperatures themselves.

EDIT: This is actually why I have been most interested in following ZDan's case for some time now. Though it may be just luck, it is interesting to know that his car has held up so well over all the tracking he has done at high RPM's, probably with a lot of oil pressure creeping toward the pressures you mention.