Charcoal canister issue?

[ScionWolf]

I would buy a cheap borescope and take a look down that filler hose before coughing up that much cash. It will be extremely obvious if it collapsed. In fact, that's what I did when diagnosing my own vehicle when I had this problem.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by kizmar

Has anyone else run into an issue with their charcoal canister causing the gas to back up when you pump gas in your car?

My 2013 FR-S is currently at the dealership and that's what they're telling me the problem is. Fat price of $1,721 to fix it. Not sure if I should talk to another mechanic shop.

The charcoal canister is an emission control component warrantied by a separate 8 year/80,000 mile policy covering parts and labor 100% as described in the Evaporative Control System, Warranty & Maintenance Guide.

I can't say for certain that the same policy was in effect for 2013MY, but my hunch is it was.

If you're still within warranty time and mileage, you're golden. The dealer would be risking a showdown with Toyota otherwise, it's a serious Federal offense for a dealer to deny EPA mandates. One call to the Toyota 800# will get the dealer's attention quickly if they deny coverage.

See p. 18 in the link for 2019 86 or if you have the separate Warranty & Maintenance Guide that came with your car, even better:

https://www.toyota.com/content/ebroc...T-MMS-1986.pdf

[kizmar]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Wowee. I've never heard of overfilling causing a problem like this. But I just read a few articles and yea, looks like you should avoid filling passed the first "click."

Is it possible that Toyota/ Subaru designed the system poorly to allow the user to over-fill the car before it clicks off? Is that why this is happening, or are people just doing the click-click-click-click-oh gas spilled out I better stop?

I wonder that myself, because I never "top off", or keep trying to put more in after the first click. I've always just pulled the lever until it kicks off and quit.

Originally Posted by Atmo

The charcoal canister is an emission control component warrantied by a separate 8 year/80,000 mile policy covering parts and labor 100% as described in the Evaporative Control System, Warranty & Maintenance Guide.

I can't say for certain that the same policy was in effect for 2013MY, but my hunch is it was.

If you're still within warranty time and mileage, you're golden. The dealer would be risking a showdown with Toyota otherwise, it's a serious Federal offense for a dealer to deny EPA mandates. One call to the Toyota 800# will get the dealer's attention quickly if they deny coverage.

See p. 18 in the link for 2019 86 or if you have the separate Warranty & Maintenance Guide that came with your car, even better:

https://www.toyota.com/content/ebroc...T-MMS-1986.pdf

Wow... if that's the case then I'm still within that boundary. I'm only at like 72k miles. I'll definitely be looking in to this one. Thank you! One day I will have posted enough times to use the "thanks" button.

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I so sent a message to the guy at the dealership and this is what I got back:
"These are the components covered by the 8/80. Specific components."


I realize this specific issue is because I have one of the early vehicles made, but I've had more issue with this FR-S than any other car I've owned combined. It's had multiple recalls, and early on I also had to have to fuel pump replaced 3 different time. I'm wishing I hadn't bought this car now.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by kizmar

I wonder that myself, because I never "top off", or keep trying to put more in after the first click. I've always just pulled the lever until it kicks off and quit.



Wow... if that's the case then I'm still within that boundary. I'm only at like 72k miles. I'll definitely be looking in to this one. Thank you! One day I will have posted enough times to use the "thanks" button.

------

I so sent a message to the guy at the dealership and this is what I got back:
"These are the components covered by the 8/80. Specific components."


I realize this specific issue is because I have one of the early vehicles made, but I've had more issue with this FR-S than any other car I've owned combined. It's had multiple recalls, and early on I also had to have to fuel pump replaced 3 different time. I'm wishing I hadn't bought this car now.

You also bought the first year model hence the TSBs and recalls although that's not an excuse. I'd imagine those recalls and fuel pump fixes were done through the warranty however correct? That's why I would think that's not that big of a deal and you just got unlucky....

[Contender]

Hmm or cheaper yet why not just pull it all out. Its not really needed.

[tarzan_nojane]

Originally Posted by humfrz

After you post about 10 times a "thanks" button will appear at the bottom of peoples posts. If you like their post, you can punch it -

humfrz

I have been looking for this since I first joined. As this is my 10th post I should be in business from here on out!

[kizmar]

Originally Posted by Contender

Hmm or cheaper yet why not just pull it all out. Its not really needed.

If I was mechanically inclined, I'd probably be doing that right now. Still dealing with this issue, but it's gotten way worse. Can't even put gas in my car.

[Hoahao]

Originally Posted by kizmar

If I was mechanically inclined, I'd probably be doing that right now. Still dealing with this issue, but it's gotten way worse. Can't even put gas in my car. I'd rather sell this than spend $1,700+ to fix a filter.

Take a look at this thread; might help

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137351

[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by Contender

Hmm or cheaper yet why not just pull it all out. Its not really needed.

I would expect to get many error codes if you tried that.
The evap system is tied in to many emissions requirements. I spent a year as an engineer doing cannister purge valves (controls the flow in the evap system).

Basically on a hot day you get a buildup of vapour in your gas tank. Instead of venting toxic vapours to the atmosphere (and wasting gas) it goes to the charcoal canister where it waits to be used. Every so often the ECU will crack open the CPV and 'have a sniff' to see if there's much gas in there. If there is the computer will open the valve (modulate via duty-cycle) and vary the fuel amount accordingly. Sitting at a street light on a hot day your engine may in fact be running solely based on vapours from the charcoal cannister.

When you overfill the tank then you get liquid fuel in the charcoal cannister. Eventually it evaporate and go through the engine so if you don't do it too often or too much then it's ok.

[kizmar]

Boy do I have a follow-up! My specific issue had nothing to do with the charcoal filter, even though the local Toyota dealership said that's what the issue was. The dealership wanted to charge me $1,700 to change out the whole charcoal filter assembly.

I found an auto shop closer to me that will work on Toyotas. Had them look at it. They inspected the charcoal assembly and said there were no air obstructions in that. What they ended up finding; a hose by the gas tank was somehow clogged. At first they assumed critters or something. They ended up having to remove the tank in order to replace the problematic hose. It's about a foot long & ~1.5". On the invoice the part is called a "fuel filler neck (lower)". Anyway, out the door they ended up charging me just over $1,000. I was thrilled with that.

Had I allowed the dealership to work on this, I would have paid WAY more, and it wouldn't have fixed the problem. The auto shop guy said they likely didn't properly troubleshoot to figure out what was wrong. Just Googled it and diagnosed based on the common issue.

So I just picked my car up, and the mechanic handed me the hose. Laughing; he said he's never seen anything like that before. Took some pics: https://imgur.com/a/DHI8NiU

If you happen to live in the Grand Rapids, MI area... don't trust the Toyota dealership.

[LimitedSlip]

@kizmar - Is this the part?

• SKU: SU003-01093
• Positions: Lower
• Other Names: Hose Filler

[humfrz]

Glad you got it fixed.

Looks like the hose was defective (had a weak wall(s)) and it got partially sucked closed.

Cpt. Obvious

[kizmar]

Originally Posted by LimitedSlip

@kizmar - Is this the part?

• SKU: SU003-01093
• Positions: Lower
• Other Names: Hose Filler

Based on the picture... it doesn't look like the shape of the hose they handed me. Check out the images link; the third photo is the whole hose. I know nothing about engines so I'm not going to be much help on specifics here.

[Edit] I checked the invoice and that does match the part number they listed at $125.65. I'm assuming the hose they handed me was just part of that assembly/SKU.