FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by huyttz

the S2000 isn't even in the same class of the Miata, it is usually compared to the Z... but the S2000 is dead and the Z has only gotten better. yes the Genesis Coupe is too heavy to compare... its more of a Mustang competitor. Although the price of the base model makes it comparable.

the FR-S should be a tad better than the Miata, but certainly not close to the S2000. (and the fact it is a coupe vs roadster)

in any case, no point in trying to compare... its not the same type of car as anything on the market.

Exactly.

[Zaku]

If you wanted to compare the closest thing is a 2.0T Genesis, a Civic Si and an Rx8 in this current market.

....I don't think a GTI would fit but throw it in there if you must.

But NOT A 370Z

[OldSkoolToys]

A Civic? I understand where you're coming from but the fact its not FR kinda takes it off the table.

In BMI's case, it would be a 2.0L FR vs. 2.0L FF SUPER BATTLE TO THE DEATH at Tsukuba, with Tsuchiya in the FT-86.

Oh happy days ahead, can't wait!

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

A Civic? I understand where you're coming from but the fact its not FR kinda takes it off the table.

In BMI's case, it would be a 2.0L FR vs. 2.0L FF SUPER BATTLE TO THE DEATH at Tsukuba, with Tsuchiya in the FT-86.

Oh happy days ahead, can't wait!

I don't care what anyone says if Gan san was still active he would own Tsuchiya in a 2.0L FF anyday! But too bad that' not the case I can't wait to see a BMI like that !

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by huyttz

the S2000 isn't even in the same class of the Miata, it is usually compared to the Z... but the S2000 is dead and the Z has only gotten better. yes the Genesis Coupe is too heavy to compare... its more of a Mustang competitor. Although the price of the base model makes it comparable.

the FR-S should be a tad better than the Miata, but certainly not close to the S2000. (and the fact it is a coupe vs roadster)

in any case, no point in trying to compare... its not the same type of car as anything on the market.

class differs from many different aspects. Performance brackets are based on similarities on a points system. The FD rx7 and s2k were on similar performance brackets, even if they are in different classes. The 350z and NSX were also on similar performance brackets but are also in different classes.

The genesis coupe, s2k, Integra, silvia, miata, rx8 should all be in similar performance brackets but not the same class..im sure we can add and take a few cars given the situation.

[OldSkoolToys]

Thats what I've been trying to show with this debate, from both sides.

One is a strict sales comparison of why the FR-S wouldn't compete with the same sales. The other is a performance class. Of which both can be basically explained using the car's starting MSRP and engine size.

Especially performance class....you're comparing a 2.0L N/A 4cyl to a 3.7L 6 cyl...that doesn't even make any sense. Add onto that fact that basically everyone who says it HAS to compete with the 370Z is basically a power head...and you get the end result: a silly argument.

[chulooz]

Have any of you guys noticed the large population of women putting around through cities with their 'cute Z'? Well those are some of the same people who will cross shop a FR-S. It seems as if from their perspective if they can have a cute, fun, car for less money and more seating why wouldnt they.

Its been said before, many people who purchase cars like these are not necessarily enthusiasts.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Have any of you guys noticed the large population of women putting around through cities with their 'cute Z'? Well those are some of the same people who will cross shop a FR-S. It seems as if from their perspective if they can have a cute, fun, car for less money and more seating why wouldnt they.

Its been said before, many people who purchase cars like these are not necessarily enthusiasts.

I was just going to write something similar. I personally don't think the Z compares with the FR-S as they are different horses for different courses. However I can see how someone with $31k looking at the Z might also take a look at the FT-86 when it comes out. I think you might get more people initially interested in the Z "drop down" and consider the FR-S than you will have people originally interested in the FR-S then consider the Z. Just a matter of budget really. If someone is looking for a fun FR 2 door sports car, both of these should make the list along with the others. Now in the end it depends on their budget and how much one might want to spend. Similar to why many might cross shop a Boxter with a Z. I personally don't think the Z is similar to the FR-S in anyways except for having 4 wheels, 2 doors, and being FR. But the average Joe might consider "that new Toyota/Scion" when looking at the Nissan. So from a sales perspective they might "compete" against each other. Hell I was close to getting a new Z last year until I decided to see what Toyobaru would offer.

[Kids Heart]

One of these 2 is not like the other,
one has back seats, the other ones don't.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

One of these 2 is not like the other,
one has back seats, the other ones don't.

haha, staying true to your name I see.


You have a picture of your car btw? My friend sold his sileighty to a person who lived in Atlanta....

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

What good is the boost if you're making roughly the same WHP and weigh 400 lbs heavier?

Sure, the Gen coupe might get off the line quicker, but if you're good with hard launching, shouldn't be hard to overcome in the FR-S.

That's what's beautiful about boost though. Flick of a switch and you got more power.

I have to say the Gen Coupe 2.0T is the closest competitor to the FR-S. Then you can toss in the 2012 Civic SI even though it's not considered a sports car, it will be a buyers options due to the same price segment.

Although you would have to be a fool to pick the 2012 SI over the FR-S.

The RX8 is often in the same shootout as the 350z. So, if anyone is going to compare the FR-S to the RX8, then you are going to have to compare it to the 350z also. Which the Z is a brute of a car and I don't think the FR-S will have the balls to tackle the Z. The RX8 is just slow, so I can see why people would say it would be a competitor, but you can't ignore what else it competes with.

FR-S though with a little more power is going to be a BEAST...hence why I want 300whp in it.

[cyde01]

what i really don't understand about the "has to beat the 370z to be successful" crowd is their illogical idea that because the fr-s has no direct competitors, it will not be successful. okaaaay, so if it does have direct competitors that it has to fight for market share, somehow that's gonna make it more successful? last i checked having a monopoly on a segment was a much better formula for success than having lots of competition.

the argument is that aside from the miata, the low 20k 4 cylinder sports car has died off and therefore the entire segment must be unviable. this is a ridiculous argument because if you look at the only cars that fit this segment in the US, there were obvious factors that killed each one that had nothing to do with the fact that they were priced in the low 20s and had 4 cylinder engines.

the 240sx, the last true car which would have competed with the fr-s, died because of the ka24 motor and super bland styling from the zenki s14. sr20 and styling like the s15 would have saved it for sure.

the celica died because the entire 6th generation was only available with the 7a-fe and 5s-fe and in wrong wheel drive. the 2zz in the 7th gen was an improvement by comparison but it had love it or hate it styling which grew dated quickly.

the mr2 was always even more of a niche within the already niche sports car category because it was MR. that coupled with the frog face last gen which was only available with the 1zz killed the car. i hear it was an excellent car with the 2zz.

meanwhile, similar cars like the eclipse and integra/rsx, even the overweight prelude, were popular during the 90s despite being wrong wheel drive because they were available with 180-200 hp and didn't look like gremlins like the 7th gen celica. even the overweight tC with only 160 hp was popular for its first few years. and as we all know, the miata has soldiered on with 170hp for decades. that to me is enough proof that this segment is viable, even at 180-200 hp. there are those who are willing to pay an extra premium for boosting and more power, but there are plenty of us that would be satisfied with no boost and a lower pricetag.

edit: the prelude, despite being popular for a time, eventually died because it got too heavy and too much higher than the low 20k range. and it got hit with the ugly stick. the eclipse died because of ugly styling and and a move to a v6 for the higher output version, and just being wack compared to the evo. i'm not too sure why the rsx died but hey it's ff so who cares.

[fatoni]

while the stats are not really in the same category as eachother, i think grins per dollar is what most people look at when they compare two cars that different. well have to see if the 370 is worth it over the ft86. the stupid part is the fact that we dont know what kind of car its going to be. it seems too small to be a tourer so i hope it comes out a proper sports car (although a host of people defend a sport car as being a 2 seater, rwd, and not be based of any econobox...stupid but whatever) if this thing can be a hardtop miata and have enough room so i dont have to take my shoes off to drive im in.

[EJ20]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

A Civic? I understand where you're coming from but the fact its not FR kinda takes it off the table.

In BMI's case, it would be a 2.0L FR vs. 2.0L FF SUPER BATTLE TO THE DEATH at Tsukuba, with Tsuchiya in the FT-86.

Oh happy days ahead, can't wait!

According to this BMI is no more
http://noriyaro.com/?p=6554