FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[OldSkoolToys]

The title of this thread and the debate it creates is starting to honestly eat at me. Basically, lets have a debate...you tell me and others WHY you think for some crazy reason this car is going to be competing with sales against the 370z. I'll start with my side.

Using the Sport Package 370Z against what we know of the FR-S, with a middle ground $24k MSRP.

370z:
$35k, 3.7L V6 @ 3200lbs, 332hp / 270 ft-lb

FR-S:
~$24k, 2.0L H4 @ ~2700lbs, ~200hp / est. 155 ft-lb

Any red flags yet? Could it be the monstrous size difference in engines that put these car's in different classes? The $11k price tag difference? The weight difference?

I'm failing to see where in the hell exactly people are expecting this car to compete with the Z. The engine difference alone puts them in different sports classes, and the price tag on the 370Z takes its pretty much out of most peoples affordable range, especially Scions target market.

Take for example, the FR-S in my situation of a $5k down payment and trade in of about $1500 (After paying off debt on the Fusion), puts a $24k car, to $18k, and makes payments roughly around $365. Thats affordable for me. The 370Z, however, in the same situation, would come out at $560 a month...a retardedly high payment. In order to get the 370z to the same monthly payment as the FR-S I would have to literally triple my down payment to $15k, or as I call it, save for a few more years. Now if I were going to do that, was I ever really in the market for the FR-S in the first place?

My suggestion to people who are wanting this car to compete with the Z is to stop getting your hopes up. The Z and the FR-S are in two different sport categories, and hence, should not be expected to compete with each other. The FR-S is supposed to deliver a different driving experience from the Z altogether, emphasizing complete balance, light weight, and low center of gravity to make the car handle as much like a race car as possible. The emphasis is NOT power.

[RRnold]

+1 Comparing apples and oranges!

I don't think there are too many cars that can truely compare to the FR-S besides the Genesis coupe.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by RRnold

+1 Comparing apples and oranges!

I don't think there are too many cars that can truely compare to the FR-S besides the Genesis coupe.

Its too overweight to really compare. If the FR-S does come with the expected 200hp, it will smoke the Gen Coupe in every facet.

[Zaku]

First off... I don't see it either. I mean your comparing a 2+2 to 2 Seater that's a lot more expensive, a lot more powerful, comes in different forms too like a roadster.

I guarantee you most people will go for a FRS,because of the 2+2 layout and price. Because let's face it a G37 is way expensive and it's not a sporty Z it's a Skyline.

FRS is expecting to be in one form, Z has 3 forms, unless some how Toyota decides let's put a V6 from a camry in it, and make it compete against the genesis. Then i don't see how it's going to compete with a "Z" honestly the only true Z competition in my honest opinion is a Cayman/Boxster.

Now the closest competition to the FR-S I think... is well right now older cars Rx-8 and the 2.0T genesis.

[blewmax07]

As much as I hated to read your post, I must agree with you. Those were some harsh facts, but correct me if I'm wrong. If this car came NA with around 200 hp, adding a turbo could easily put you around 250-275 with little boost. Doing that along with the price of the car will still be cheaper than a new Z. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the subaru version will have a turbo. Not to mention, I'm sure the aftermarket as we speak have plans for this car once they can get their hands on one. So I guess what I'm saying is getting close to 370Z numbers shouldn't be too difficult. Not to mention have a back seat, better gas mileage, and a functional trunk. I'm no mechanic but those are just my thoughts, what do you think?

[WingsofWar]

In our current market is the Miata in direct comparison to the 370z? No, the FR-S market SHOULD be geared towards a similar performance bracket and target audience. If any magazines or autoblogs do compare the two cars, they have to have use a different contrast than FT86vsZ35.

The only group of people that would want to start such a retarded debate are enthusiasts, which typically are a biased breed and wouldn't be the best people to listen too. They are a small portion of the total consumer market.

So realistically i can see a Best motoring showdown with the FR-S with this line up. NA 2 lap FT86/S2000/MIATA/RX-8.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

The only group of people that would want to start such a retarded debate are enthusiasts, which typically are a biased breed and wouldn't be the best people to listen too. They are a small portion of the total consumer market.

So realistically i can see a Best motoring showdown with the FR-S with this line up. NA 2 lap FT86/S2000/MIATA/RX-8.

Well I am an enthusiast and I'm not making that argument. Because a true enthusiast knows about different sports classes and segments. I believe its just people WANT the car to be as fast as the 370z without having to pony up the cash to get said performance. Its not happening, nor should it be expected to happen.

oh and I guarantee that BMI is doing an FT-86 vs. S2K vs. Miata in some form or fashion. They HAVE to....and maybe have Tsuchiya in his TRD AE86 touge monster at the back of the pack, cursing the 2.0L's for ganging up on him.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Its too overweight to really compare. If the FR-S does come with the expected 200hp, it will smoke the Gen Coupe in every facet.

Yeah that thing is a piglet but I'm seeing from a FR/2-dr/2+2/4 cyl perspective. Besides the weight, that is the closest sport compact available.

[blur]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

So realistically i can see a Best motoring showdown with the FR-S with this line up. NA 2 lap FT86/S2000/MIATA/RX-8.

IMO, RX8 is a 4 door, s2000 and miata are 2 seater convertibles . . . thats not like the FRS at all.

I'd say the genesis is the most like the FRS. However, we can all agree that the FRS is much better in every department . . . besides boost.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by blewmax07

As much as I hated to read your post, I must agree with you. Those were some harsh facts, but correct me if I'm wrong. If this car came NA with around 200 hp, adding a turbo could easily put you around 250-275 with little boost. Doing that along with the price of the car will still be cheaper than a new Z. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the subaru version will have a turbo. Not to mention, I'm sure the aftermarket as we speak have plans for this car once they can get their hands on one. So I guess what I'm saying is getting close to 370Z numbers shouldn't be too difficult. Not to mention have a back seat, better gas mileage, and a functional trunk. I'm no mechanic but those are just my thoughts, what do you think?

Thats an argument for the FR-S right there. The money savings alone and you can make the FT-86 as quick in the straight as the 370Z, considering the weight difference.

Of course, depends on your ability to ignore the dealer warranty.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by blur

IMO, RX8 is a 4 door, s2000 and miata are 2 seater convertibles . . . thats not like the FRS at all.

I'd say the genesis is the most like the FRS. However, we can all agree that the FRS is much better in every department . . . besides boost.

What good is the boost if you're making roughly the same WHP and weigh 400 lbs heavier?

Sure, the Gen coupe might get off the line quicker, but if you're good with hard launching, shouldn't be hard to overcome in the FR-S.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by blur

IMO, RX8 is a 4 door, s2000 and miata are 2 seater convertibles . . . thats not like the FRS at all.

I'd say the genesis is the most like the FRS. However, we can all agree that the FRS is much better in every department . . . besides boost.

performance bracket, not atheistics and chassis design. The cars iv listed were better comparison because they share similar brackets in both market and performance. Besides there are discrepancies globally about what the rx8 is (sedan or coupe) and the S2k and miata can appear in a hardtop model. The genesis iv thought off would be a decent match up, especially for the US market readers, but from a global standpoint my list is would be far more popular.

Also if the BMI and other magazines would post up a challenge with the FRS/miata/rx8/s2k ....which 2 are out of production already (rx8/s2k) we can possibly see some great responses from that in the industry.

[huyttz]

the S2000 isn't even in the same class of the Miata, it is usually compared to the Z... but the S2000 is dead and the Z has only gotten better. yes the Genesis Coupe is too heavy to compare... its more of a Mustang competitor. Although the price of the base model makes it comparable.

the FR-S should be a tad better than the Miata, but certainly not close to the S2000. (and the fact it is a coupe vs roadster)

in any case, no point in trying to compare... its not the same type of car as anything on the market.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by blur

IMO, RX8 is a 4 door, s2000 and miata are 2 seater convertibles . . . thats not like the FRS at all.

I'd say the genesis is the most like the FRS. However, we can all agree that the FRS is much better in every department . . . besides boost.

I think he was talking bout in Best Motoring.

to add to WingsofWars. I can see Integra/Civic in that list. They always add FF in FR car race and GT-R or STI for video car.